HMCK20

thats what i heard i just wanted to check. i appreciate the info

trinydex

i wonder what the big debate is about springs... at most you guys are claiming it doens't take away from the car's ahndling and that's only one set of springs... by and large most of everything else said was true. there will always be exceptions and the fact is that it still puts more wear on the dampers and still changes alignment geometry etc.

the only way anyone is really gonna go faster (increase grip potential of the car) is with properly valved and sprung coilovers.

with that said i'd like to know if these "rave reviews" of suspension are taking into consideration valving and how customized the customized suspensions are. i'd like to know more about the expensive setups. where they're run, how the developement was done.

RED MX5

Me too!

I always spend some time talking to the engineers behind a product, because that's the only way I can get a good feel for what I'm buying. One of the rubs with some of the JDM products is that the designers don't speak English any better than I speak Japanese.

Ads and anectodal reports never have enough information for an informed decision.

trinydex

another fub of the jdm products is that the us branches end up selling us garbage that is meant for slamming your car overdamping so you don't bottom out and all that riff raff.

it's hard these days to find well sorted suspension solutions and that's why i'm plugging for it so badly in so many different threads, i really want answers badly.

it could be said that the s2k is probably more easy to setup and make decent products for becuase front midships have well accepted guidelines...

i still haven't heard anything about the amuse ohlins, any ohlins at all. i've heard moton and jrx mentioned but there's no data.

RED MX5

Until I read your post I hadn't actually thought about it, but you're absolutely right.

It's very easy to screw up the handling of the car; All it takes is uneven tire pressures; The car responds to everything we change, but at the same time it is apparently easy to design (or develop) products like springs that work surprisingly well with an otherwise stock suspension setup.

I've always though of lowering a car as a process that involved reengineering major parts of the cars suspension, and we only put the Pro Kit on the car to see if I could live with a 1" drop on the street. I wanted to be sure of that before dumping time and money into sorting out a proper drop. I expected both the ride and handling to go to pot, but as it turned out neither suffered enough to be concerned about (at least for now). Then we threw the extra weight of the SC up front, further changing the cars balance and handling. Because that 40-50 pounds is located ahead of the front axle I didn't know if we'd be moving the cornering bias toward the front or the rear, but (with my early AP1) I was hoping for a tiny bit more bias toward understeer (at least on corner exit), and as luck would have it, that's the way it worked out. Instead of the extra power and cheap method of dropping the car turning it into some kind of foul handling beast, it was actually easer to manage with the extra power the SC produced, and the car was actually getting close to handling just the way I'd wanted. Since it wasn't planned I attribute it to luck or karma. Then we put the KAAZ LSD in the car. It is common knowledge that a Torsen is generally preferred for autocrossing, because a clutch type LSD makes a car more prone to pushing on corner exit, but the S doesn't have a push problem (especially early AP1's like mine), so I was confidant that the diff would let me be a little quicker on the autocross courses and make the car easier to drift. Not too surprisingly the LSD produced exactly the results one would expect.

What gets me is that I know full well that if anyone had asked me if this kind of setup would work well, I'd have said, "I seriously doubt it," and I'd be being charitable, because I'd be thinking, "No way." You just can't drop a can an inch with aftermarket springs over stock shocks, add 40-50 pounds in front of the front axle line, put in a differential that locks up solidly and instantly every time you feed it a little torque, and end up with a car that is easier to drive and as grippy as it was when it was bone stock. Nope, can't happen. No way. If I weren't autocrossing the car myself, and getting a few national and pro series drivers to drive it and evaluate the handling I'd still think it was impossible.

About the only conclusion I can draw is that while it is easy to screw up the handling with tire pressures, alignment, and other little things, well designed mods from reputable companies seem to work a heck of a lot better than I ever expected.

We're still going to build up the suspension eventually, but the handling is in a sweet spot right now, so there's no rush. Gotta get the exhaust system sorted out and shed some weight. Then maybe we'll get back to the suspension. Since the car amazes me every time I drive it I'm certainly in no rush, and will probably wait until we start running R compound tires before doing anything else to the suspension.

trinydex

yeah well designed stuff is always going to be good... the fact is that most companies don't do the research or the developemental testing that needs to be done to ensure things like ride quality, handling characteristics etc.

for evos you get a huge problems because nose heavy all wheel drive cars don't exactly have a set dogma of suspension tuning. the testing all has to be done by someone. lucky enough the enthusiasm in teh group has warranted some professionals using their time in this way.

if it's pretty well accepted that the s2k is well sorted then i suppose most off the shelf suspensions will probably fare pretty well. i was just much concerned because it's not the case for many other cars.

RED MX5

It takes me forever to get anything done with my car, in part because I don't like to part with my money until I feel that I have a good idea what I'm actually buying. I put no faith in advertising claims, sales pitches, and anecdotal support, because they've proven to be unreliable all too often. I often end up having to talk to a products designer before I can make up my mind.

LOL, it could be that this has some bearing on how surprised and satisfied with the way my car has responded to a few simple mods, but I think it has more to do with the fact that this car is such a well sorted out platform to begin with.

I'm not at all sure that all the available S2000 aftermarket products are well sorted out, but at least some of them are.

ohms2k

I really enjoy the comfort of the stock spring/shock...but i really do want to lower the car and not lose the comfort feel...any advice on what spring/shock i should go for?
thinking of getting the Tein high tech/s tech lowering springs with after market shocks but not sure what shocks to use...and is the s tech the right spring to use for that comfort feel?

sprix!

Thank you so much! I enjoyed reading every bit of your posts. Your opinion is qualified and eloquently stated. You have provided invaluable information from you own experience. I was getting a little tired of the hegemony of the woes of lowering springs with no empirical data. You have disproven this theory. Well said.

s2kspa02

i have read threw all the post lots of good info about coilovers and springs. i have a 02 ap1 with 225/45/17's front and 255/40/17's rear everything eles is stock.. i dont track the car yet just a daily driver and maybe a weekend run to the mountains. i want to lower it a little but i;m not sure the 1inch drop will be enough. i have ran the skunk2 springs in the past and coilovers.. what do you thinkof the 2.5 skunk drop with a camber kit or should i stick with the pro kit and save for a super charger..lol.