delliot

Yeah I agree, but it was interesting...

S2FARSI

Not a fair comparison. If they used the same exact car but with different suspension for each test, you would be able to make a reference to the article.






I have the KWV3's myself. The real advantage of these is the fact that they are double adjustable as mentioned earlier. Adjusting compression is a PITA but you can ride it real soft for DD and somewhat stiffer for track use. To be honest though, you would be better off adjusting the coils at the track, then only adjusting the rebound when not on the track. Just my opinion.

Finally, I would never buy any product T1R makes. For the most part, they just replicate other designs (with mandatory slight design differences) and I do no trust companies that cannot make all original designs. Again, this is just my opinion.

S2FARSI

Just so that they can sell their magazine.

Voodoo_S2K

One item I don't think that has been mentioned yet is the T1R's offer separate height and preload adjustments. The KW's do not. This is a big deal in my book.

Cost differental is also several hundred dollars in favor of the T1R's.

While the KW's enjoy a very loyal following, almost cult like, they lack several features coilovers in their price range do, so in my book, they are overpriced.

driftintherain

^^ so are you saying that youll choose t1r instead of kw?

S2FARSI

What is the huge advantage of having preload adjustment available?

Besides, super preload adjustment and pillowball top mounts, what do the KWV3's lack?

Last time I checked, the t1r's do not come with external reservoirs on the rear shocks (just like OEM and any reputable shock on the market), helper springs on all four corners, or with double adjust-ability . The t1r shocks have not been proven time and time again to be a competitor against all the other coil-overs on the market either. The website says "Race Proven" but guess what? It is race "proven" by employees of their main retailer.

Lastly, the KWV3's can be had for $1750-$1800 shipped through the group buy while the t1r's are $1900 just for the shocks. Then you need to add tax and shipping of course. Who was the cost differential in favor of again? I thought so.

B serious

I agree that I was kinda put off by not having full body adjustability on the KWs. But driving is believing. The shock valving is PERFECT. Also, my car sits like this, but is still within the min lowering ranges. I plan to raise it up just a little bit, however.



The T1Rs do offer full body adjustability..but I can't imagine the shock valving to be any better than the KWs..even when the car is as low as mine, it rides AMMMMMAZZINGLY well.

Think about the Tein Flex. Full adjustability..but kinda crappy valving. So they offer a shitty ride. I'm not saying that the T1R valving is shitty...I have no experience with them. I just can't imagine spring rates and valving being matched so damn well as the KW.

You're not paying for "features" on KWs as much as you're paying for engineering. Just like you didn't buy the S2000 for "features". If a simple design is engineered very well, and it just WORKS...and that's all that matters. Trust me, it works. They're not overpriced.

You have to figure that if a coilover that retails for $2300 but still doesn't have full adjustability...there's gotta be a REASON they cost that much. Engineering. I dont overpay for shit...but I dont mind paying for a good design.

As long as you stay within the min. height specs and dont wanna ride ricer ass low, the KWs work awesome. Even with my car that low, going across slightly bumpy turns is not a nervousness inducing act. I'll be taking it to gingerman in July. Gingerman is technical and bumpy...so that'll be a pretty good test.

I'll report back, but the OP will probably have made a decision by then.

Either way, it looks like they're both quality coilovers.

The KWs have a following because they're awesome.

Voodoo_S2K

[QUOTE=S2FARSI,May 2 2008, 05:53 PM]What is the huge advantage of having preload adjustment available?

Besides, super preload adjustment and pillowball top mounts, what do the KWV3's lack?

Last time I checked, the t1r's do not come with external reservoirs on the rear shocks (just like OEM and any reputable shock on the market), helper springs on all four corners, or with double adjust-ability . The t1r shocks have not been proven time and time again to be a competitor against all the other coil-overs on the market either. The website says "Race Proven" but guess what? It is race "proven" by employees of their main retailer.

Lastly, the KWV3's can be had for $1750-$1800 shipped through the group buy while the

Voodoo_S2K

I'm not arguing that KW's aren't a nice coilover. I believe that they are decent, just not for the price, IMO.

I've driving in both KW and T1R equipped S2000's and felt both did a good job on the street, but for my money, I passed on the KW's and spent my money elsewhere.

B serious

I think there is an equipment trade off as well, if you think about it.

T1Rs have a very useful full body adjustment, but not independent damping adjustments.

The KWV3s have independent damping adjustments...but they are hard to use and tune. You really have to know what you're doing.

The T1Rs do not come with a helper spring.

The KWV3s do. Which can be helpful if you're REALLY pushing a car with big swaybars and a torsen/helical LSD. Wheel off the ground = open diff.

From that, it looks like the KWs are geared more towards people who know what they're doing for adjustments and hit the track pretty often.

For the street, they both seem adequate. I think the KWs have a lower spring rate (am I wrong?), which is nice not only for the street, but for bumpy tracks. This is no surprise as they are tuned on the autobahn (iirc)...which is a bumpy track. So they're very forgiving.

Not sure what the specs on the T1Rs are. Usually japanese coilovers have very high spring rates since their tracks and roads are very smooth.

The T1R seems to be geared more towards simplicity and the needs of people who want to DUMP their cars with no consequence in shock travel. I'm not saying that as a negative comment towards the T1Rs. I'm sure they're a great suspension.

I just think I'd rather have the independent adjustment and helper springs. They were important to me. The external reservoirs were a bonus.

The T1Rs allow you to tuck tire and still have a decent ride, and the adjustment for damping is simple. Soft = soft. Stiff = stiff is what a lot of people understand. The rebound/bump independent adjustment is a little overwhelming since the stiff and soft now have directions attatched to them.

I've never driven a car with TIRs...so I can only speak from paper specs (of which I have limited knowledge as well).

I just really like the KWs lol.