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CR Suspension vs 2004 OEM as a daily driver

S2000 CR Club Racer Edition CR stands for "club racer," conjuring up the good old days when guys drove their sports cars to the track, raced them, and then, if the racing gods were smiling, drove them home again

CR Suspension vs 2004 OEM as a daily driver

 
Old 11-05-2018, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas Guide View Post
Thanks for the replies guys. I've been pondering all of your responses and I've looked at where you all are from for commonality of driving terrain. I lived in Los Angeles and the S was my daily driver for 12 years there before moving to Phoenix. I also went on a road trip and ended up back to my home state of Michigan where the roads are awful. Los Angeles has its bad roads but a huge improvement over Michigan. The roads in Arizona are excellent compared to the other two.

So I see responses from Fountain Valley, Redondo, Ontario (Canada eh) and I can relate and compare to those areas and the consensus is the CR suspension is great, but not as a daily driver. I'm a bit disappointed to hear that honestly. I don't think I'm interested in an aftermarket setup as I don't want to spend time adjusting and trying to figure out the setup and I'm not sure if one is really improving the characteristics over OEM of the car by going with aftermarket or how they truly change the car based on how it interacts with the other components. One thing I keep reading about the Ohlins is you need a different type of spring to really bring it out... Maybe I'm overthinking all of this but I'm trying to introduce as few variables and keep the car OEM / stock as possible (hence my interest in the CR suspension vs aftermarket).

Any CR owners live in the Phoenix area care to take me for a spin around the block as a comparison in exchange for a 6 pack?
I lived in Phx for 9 years and recently moved to the east coast. CR suspension is totally doable in Phx haha. Roads are so damn smooth there. I drove all around the southwest in my CR. LA and all of CA was terrible, but AZ if fine. East coast is also too rough for CR suspension as a daily IMO.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:06 AM
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I own an '05 and CR with stock suspensions. I've driven the CR for 9 years and '05 for 3 years. Face value, the '05 is like riding on a cloud compared to the CR.

The CR will connect you more to the ground meaning you'll feel the small bumps and uneven pavement. Everything is more noticeable, however, bear in mind the CR also has a stiffer chassis.

The '05 is certainly more comfortable and enjoyable as a daily, period. It softens the bumps and uneveness, but body rolls are more noticeable in a turn.

Hope that helps!
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:24 AM
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All S2000s have a somewhat "overdampened" feeling, but the CR suspension is properly, Porsche GT3 levels of stiff. It can be enjoyed for a full weekend, but I wouldn't want to daily drive that suspension unless I lived on a twisty mountain road.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:20 PM
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You can get the ohlins pre set, then have them professionally corner balanced. I drove an AP2 with CR suspension and one with Ohlins. I'm buying Ohlins if I upgrade. You can keep them at stock ride height if you want, and they are EXTREMELY capable, moreso than CR suspension IMO. The car I drove had cheap all seasons and gripped better than mine with Max Performance summer tires. Just contact one of the vendors like Sakebomb and tell them what you're interested in, the suspension guys that set up a lot of people hear complaints and feedback. In my experience they are very capable of understanding how to translate what you want to the correct spring rates and presets, and you're going to need an alignment anyway, so you can get a corner balance at the same time after installation, which will further improve the ohlins over what you can get with CR suspension.

Honestly, it looks like you "internet-ed" too much and are trying to logic yourself into a somewhat myopic solution. If you are still dead set on CR suspension, at least reach out to the vendors that specialize in Ohlins and chat with them. Worst thing that can happen is that it reinforces your decision to go with CR suspension.

I don't have anything against CR suspension, I was just blown away by the Ohlins.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:22 AM
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Great feedback guys! Leaves more to still consider on my end. I know Ohlins are very highly rated here but for those of you who have switched did you ever conduct any real world tests on the track in a before and after to see how it improved your lap times? Not trying to sound condescending with this statement as I'm just saying this to continue a great conversation but every post says it 'feels' more improved (feelz < realz) but I have yet to find anyone (or video) proving they have improved their lap times compared to CR suspension (or a regular OEM suspension for that matter). I'll gladly eat crow if this data exists. The reason why I'm skeptical is they sell one shock system for all '00-'09 years, but we know that the spring rate and sway bars change with the different years, more stiffer in the early years vs supple in the later years, but the Ohlins springs are the same for all. It would make more sense if Ohlin had different shock versions for the different years to accomodate the changes Honda made to the overall cars, and I keep reading that Ohlins springs aren't stiff enough in the front.

Down the rabbit hole I go... lol
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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I'm also in the same boat as you (although not for a daily driver), and am evaluating the CR suspension. I have zero issue going with a coilover like the Ohlins (although through my research Ohlins don't really seem like that great of an option either due to some inherent design flaws) if it is going to net me the greatest hands-down gains. But we all know how capable the CR is, and the great amount of engineering behind what Honda did with that car and it's suspension tuning.

My setup (currently) is '00 S2000 with 06 AP2 rear swaybar. AP2V2 wheels with 245/255 RE71R, ss lines, slotted rotors, pmu hc+800 pads, oem front lip, stock everything else. I want to make the car more capable on-track (while also livable for joyriding about 2,000 miles per year, outside of to/from trackdays), and the idea of working within the confines of the OEM options intrigues me. The CR suspension can be had for pretty reasonable cost, as well.

The CR suspension would make the following changes... 219#f(3.9kg/mm) --> 384#f(6.9kg/mm) and 291#r(5.2kg/mm) --> 343#r(6.1kg/mm), front swaybar is nearly identical to early AP1 (1# difference), the AP2 rear bar that I have is about 50# smaller than the CR rear bar. My current spring rates give me more rate in the rear, and I like the balance that my car currently has. Very neutral for my driving style on track, not pushy and just enough liveliness for the rear to rotate.

So I am considering CR suspension, but swapping the '00 AP1 bar back in to give me the following...
Front springs 384# (~7k)
Front swaybar 393#
Rear springs 343#(~6.1k)
'00 AP1 Rear swaybar 427# (increased from OEM CR by 65#)
Staggered wheels with (likely) 235f/255r

Most people running coilovers encourage a square 17x9 setup (255s) with 12k or 13kf/10kr springs, and a big front swaybar. So the front has 20% more spring rate than the rear, not accounting for the swaybars. In the above CR-type setup, the front has about 15% more front spring rate than the rear, with staggered wheels which would tame the back down a bit to cover the 5% difference in f/r ratio. I had calculated suspension natural frequencies of different setups at one point, but can't seem to find the post to do it with the above setups.

At this point, the biggest negative I hear is how harsh people say that the CR suspension is on bad roads. I live in Illinois and all we have are bad roads. That certainly does play a big part in my decision. I know that Ohlins ride really nice. I'm curious as to how he ride quality of CR suspension would compare to 12k/10k on something like Fortune 510s.

Last edited by Battle Monkey; 11-09-2018 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas Guide View Post
Great feedback guys! Leaves more to still consider on my end. I know Ohlins are very highly rated here but for those of you who have switched did you ever conduct any real world tests on the track in a before and after to see how it improved your lap times? Not trying to sound condescending with this statement as I'm just saying this to continue a great conversation but every post says it 'feels' more improved (feelz < realz) but I have yet to find anyone (or video) proving they have improved their lap times compared to CR suspension (or a regular OEM suspension for that matter). I'll gladly eat crow if this data exists. The reason why I'm skeptical is they sell one shock system for all '00-'09 years, but we know that the spring rate and sway bars change with the different years, more stiffer in the early years vs supple in the later years, but the Ohlins springs are the same for all. It would make more sense if Ohlin had different shock versions for the different years to accomodate the changes Honda made to the overall cars, and I keep reading that Ohlins springs aren't stiff enough in the front.

Down the rabbit hole I go... lol
Originally Posted by Battle Monkey View Post
I'm also in the same boat as you (although not for a daily driver), and am evaluating the CR suspension. I have zero issue going with a coilover like the Ohlins (although through my research Ohlins don't really seem like that great of an option either due to some inherent design flaws) if it is going to net me the greatest hands-down gains. But we all know how capable the CR is, and the great amount of engineering behind what Honda did with that car and it's suspension tuning.

My setup (currently) is '00 S2000 with 06 AP2 rear swaybar. AP2V2 wheels with 245/255 RE71R, ss lines, slotted rotors, pmu hc+800 pads, oem front lip, stock everything else. I want to make the car more capable on-track (while also livable for joyriding about 2,000 miles per year, outside of to/from trackdays), and the idea of working within the confines of the OEM options intrigues me. The CR suspension can be had for pretty reasonable cost, as well.

The CR suspension would make the following changes... 219#f(3.9kg/mm) --> 384#f(6.9kg/mm) and 291#r(5.2kg/mm) --> 343#r(6.1kg/mm), front swaybar is nearly identical to early AP1 (1# difference), the AP2 rear bar that I have is about 50# smaller than the CR rear bar. My current spring rates give me more rate in the rear, and I like the balance that my car currently has. Very neutral for my driving style on track, not pushy and just enough liveliness for the rear to rotate.

So I am considering CR suspension, but swapping the '00 AP1 bar back in to give me the following...
Front springs 384# (~7k)
Front swaybar 393#
Rear springs 343#(~6.1k)
'00 AP1 Rear swaybar 427# (increased from OEM CR by 65#)
Staggered wheels with (likely) 235f/255r

Most people running coilovers encourage a square 17x9 setup (255s) with 12k or 13kf/10kr springs, and a big front swaybar. So the front has 20% more spring rate than the rear, not accounting for the swaybars. In the above CR-type setup, the front has about 15% more front spring rate than the rear, with staggered wheels which would tame the back down a bit to cover the 5% difference in f/r ratio. I had calculated suspension natural frequencies of different setups at one point, but can't seem to find the post to do it with the above setups.

At this point, the biggest negative I hear is how harsh people say that the CR suspension is on bad roads. I live in Illinois and all we have are bad roads. That certainly does play a big part in my decision. I know that Ohlins ride really nice. I'm curious as to how he ride quality of CR suspension would compare to 12k/10k on something like Fortune 510s.
Here is a post I made regarding suspension decisions and why I moved on from the CR setup. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-cr...ports-1097541/
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:33 AM
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Beautiful car, great taste! Thank you for sharing! Which post # are you referring to? I have my setting set to where I no longer have pages so it's difficult for me to know exactly where to look from your link.

I just went ahead and calculated the wheel rates and ratios for the various setups. Based on this, I think that the balance could be right where I want it to be. slightly more neutral than it currently is, with more spring rate.

Edit: well that didn't work... attached as picture.



Last edited by Battle Monkey; 11-09-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:00 AM
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Another reason why I am considering this sort of setup, is to keep myself within some boundary. I have a tendency, once I break beyond a constraint, to just say screw it and go all out. As evidenced by my previous k24 swapped 98 civic hatchback. That car was balls out, but ultimately cost me a ton of money and made the car less enjoyable overall. I could very quickly shell out $6k+ on coilovers, square wheel setup, (likely) fender mods so I can fit those new TC105x, etc, etc. It is super tempting, and trust me I've got a prospective setup list all drawn up for that, as well... lol

Once big mods start rolling, it's a very slippery slope for me on a clean, unmodified low-mileage AP1 that I got for $10k. So the idea of working within the boundaries of OEM tweaks is appealing.

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Old 11-09-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Battle Monkey View Post
Beautiful car, great taste! Thank you for sharing! Which post # are you referring to? I have my setting set to where I no longer have pages so it's difficult for me to know exactly where to look from your link.

I just went ahead and calculated the wheel rates and ratios for the various setups. Based on this, I think that the balance could be right where I want it to be. slightly more neutral than it currently is, with more spring rate.

Edit: well that didn't work... attached as picture.

I updated my post. I realized I made a post in this CR subforum which was a duplicate from my build thread.
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