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When I installed my fiamm dual horns I was surprised that it didn't work as I expected. The horns made some sound but it was more like quacking. I know it's an easy job and I'm well versed with electronics & soldering.
Interesting thing was: The original relais (in the fuse box) was clicking very fast. So I expected there was something wrong with the wiring and re-did everything again and even connected the wires directly to the battery.
The current set-up is like shown in this picture:
But I still get the fast clicking and squeamish sound from the horns.
Other facts:
* Power consumption of horns: 20amps (2x10)
* Wires are very thick !
* Horns work fine when connected separately
* It's in a MY02
* I disconnected only one original horn (below the bumper). The other one I left connected)
* The armature lights appear to get a tiny bit darker when I push the horn. This suggests that there's a heavy power consumption.
Next thing I'd do is to measure the amps going through the horns and measure the power drop while honking - or to directly connect the wheel switch to the 2nd relais (blue dotted line).
The only thing I don't understand is why the original relais clicks so fast. It has nearly no current running because it's just feeding another relais (supplemented by fiamm). Or is it a bad idea to control one releais with another one ? At first, I connected the new horns directly to the original wire - same effect.
Your drawing seems a bit confusing to me but it sounds like you are powering one relay with another relay and that's why it's clicking so fast. It's almost like you have a feedback loop.
Are you intending on using the Fiamms exclusively or are you trying to keep the stock horns working as well?
If you are going to eliminate the stock ones, then don't bother with another relay but rather go into the underhood fuse box and increase the amperage of the existing horn fuse (maybe double). Many of us have done this with the Fiamms and used the existing horn wire(s) to power them and it works fine since this circuit is already "relayed".
If you are trying to keep the stock horns too, I would suggest splicing into one of the stock horn power wire (near the horn itself) and taking power out of it to power your new relay. The new relay will then take power directly from the battery to power your Fiamms.
On a side note:
Are you certain that you have not confused the low power circuit with your high power circuit on the new relay? If you have, this would be like shorting out the stock horn circuit.
If you are powering one of your old horns and the new relay from from the old relay, then the old horn and the new relay are probably fighting each other. Like Xviper said, rewire your old horn so that it is powered from the new relay. You should then drive the new relay directly from the steering wheel horn button if possible, although you could probably use the old relay to drive the new relay.
For 1 Disconnect the other stock horn. With the stock horn connected the relay will not see a full 12 volts, and this could cause the intermittant signal you are hearing. But since have only one new horn connected seams to work right, this make me wonder if you are passing the voltage from the stock horn instead of the battery.
The wire from the stock horn should be connected to one side of the relay coil (86), and the other side of the coil should have a soild ground (85). Check this ground connection.
The battery should be connected to the normally open side of the relay's switch (87).
The horns should be connected to the common connector of the relay's switch. (30)
Note: The connection number are from a Fiamm relay.
To clarify some things... (sorry, I was very tired when writing the first article )
xviper:
At first I connected the fiamm horns directly to the wire which originally fed the horn in the front grille. I didn't know about the 2nd horn by then.
I already had the clicking there and so I thought that maybe the relais has something like a amperage limiter which cuts the relais when there's to much current.
So I decided to insert a second relais and power it with the power originally used for the front horn (coming from the first relais). The power for the fiamm horns (controlled by the second relais) is coming directly fom the battery.
So it's exactly as you suggested in the second part of your post.
But you're right, I'll check the connections once over with a meter (and not rely on the schema on the relais).
smyroad:
Yeah, you might be right. First I'll cut the 2nd Honda horn to check this option. To be honest I thought in my current setup it's still the stock relais that's clicking and not the 2nd one becaue in my first setup it definitely was the stock one that was clicking.
Unfortunately I cannot check which relais is clicking because I'm sitting in the car while honking. Need a 2nd person
Stratocaster
Thanks for the detialed schemas and pin-outs. I'll check asap. Bad thing is, I have to drive to the forest to test and do more complicated changes only in my garage.
I will get back to you as soon as possible (probably weekend).
Ever try to start a car with a weak battery? You'll hear the starter relay click on and off. I bet you are trying to test the horns without the car running. It's drawing too much current for some reason: either the battery is weak or the horns are defective. In any case, the relay drops out when the voltage of the battery drops and then when the horns are taken out of the circuit by the relay, the voltage rises enough to relatch(?) the relay. You would hear the relay(s) clicking and intermittent operation of the horns (?quacking). When you directly connect the horns to the battery, the relays are no longer a factor, and you may be able to hear the horn. Since you aren't in the forest, you only listen to the horn for a few seconds, not long enough to have the battery die.
I bet your circuit is fine and the horns or the battery is causing your problem. Try testing it with the car running and the alternator keeping the voltage up.
macguyver: unfortunately they're electro-magnetic horns, not air.
smyroad: you'd be most welcome !
fmah: that was my conclusion too when I saw the dashboard lights dim slightly. but I usually tested with the engine running - but I remember there was a difference between engine off, low revs, med revs (and thus higher output from alternator).
I also thought of building a circuit that allows me to connect an LED to the different spots (relais #1 and #2 output) or buying an oscilloscope
No, serious now: I'll check the wiring first, then try disconnecting the honda horn, then measure amperage and power-drop and then throw the damn things out !..
In theory, there should not be a problem driving a second relay from the first - after all relays are just electrically operated switches. Unless there is some really bad contact resistance or other source of voltage drop, it strikes me as pretty unusual for the relay to click in and out. Typically, once energized a 12 volt relay won't drop out till the voltage drops to like 4 volts, and that's not going to happen unless you have some really bad wiring connections or a lot more than 20 amps.
To make testing easier you might try locating C-402, a little 4-wire connector under the dash. It's right below a set of 3 big harness connectors directly above the air diffuser (driver's side in US cars). The orange wire in C-402 is the one that activates the factory horn relay. If you ground it, it's the same as pressing the steering wheel horn button and the relay will activate to blow the horn. If you can rig some way to ground that wire you can go listen for clicking and do meter testing by yourself, obviously with the Fiamm's disconnected. It's very low current - you could run an 18-gauge wire from the orange wire around to under the hood so you can ground it from there.
Another thing you can try is to substitute another device that will draw 20 amps in place of the horns so you can test without going to the forest. A 100-foot (30 meters) piece of 18 gauge wire is about the right resistance. If you connected it in place of your horns, it would draw about 20 amps, but it will get warm pretty quick (5 seconds?) so you can't leave it on very long. Another good substitute would be connecting both the radiator fan and condensor fans together in place of your horns. The connectors are easy to get to and both fans together will draw about 20 amps.
03-11-2003, 01:10 AM
Horn wiring problems: relais clicking fast
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