Remote Tuning Vs. Local Dyno Tuning on AEM Infinity SOS Supercharged
02-22-2019, 04:29 AM
#11
Two means to the same end. I look at it this way.
BLUF (bottom line up front): If you're super/turbocharged it doesn't matter; go for convenience. If normally aspirated a road/etune will be better. All opinion, of course.
A dynamometer is a simulator with the car running on rollers that simulate the road and maybe simulate air resistance but I don't recall anyone setting the coefficient of aerodynamic drag. If you want a "max number" for cars-and-coffee get the car dyno-tuned for that maximum number which will be at an engine speed you'll run for only a few seconds if at all. If you're putting in 15 pounds of boost five or ten HP doesn't matter either way but it does in a normally aspirated car as well as where that extra power is in the rev range. Getting and keeping the engine on the high power cam is vital.
I'm more interested in how the car performs in the rpm range where I drive and in real, not simulated conditions. A road tune will be run with the car in the configuration you want (roof up or down?) -- a dyno can't simulate these conditions that I'm aware of. Real road. Real air resistance. Real driver's weight. Tuner in the car, or live data stream can dial things in right then. With enough data it can be done in an office but it takes more time for the data and tunes to pass via emails. My Gernby FlashPro tune used, I'm guessing, 60+ "runs" to redline to dial in. This was done using several specific diagnostic tunes that supplied different data. There's one nicknamed "Prius pulling a trailer" that takes forever in time and distance to get to 8000 rpm in 3d gear. Takes a lot longer than an hour on a dyno, of course. I believe AP1Chief uses a similar methodology.
Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
BLUF (bottom line up front): If you're super/turbocharged it doesn't matter; go for convenience. If normally aspirated a road/etune will be better. All opinion, of course.
A dynamometer is a simulator with the car running on rollers that simulate the road and maybe simulate air resistance but I don't recall anyone setting the coefficient of aerodynamic drag. If you want a "max number" for cars-and-coffee get the car dyno-tuned for that maximum number which will be at an engine speed you'll run for only a few seconds if at all. If you're putting in 15 pounds of boost five or ten HP doesn't matter either way but it does in a normally aspirated car as well as where that extra power is in the rev range. Getting and keeping the engine on the high power cam is vital.
I'm more interested in how the car performs in the rpm range where I drive and in real, not simulated conditions. A road tune will be run with the car in the configuration you want (roof up or down?) -- a dyno can't simulate these conditions that I'm aware of. Real road. Real air resistance. Real driver's weight. Tuner in the car, or live data stream can dial things in right then. With enough data it can be done in an office but it takes more time for the data and tunes to pass via emails. My Gernby FlashPro tune used, I'm guessing, 60+ "runs" to redline to dial in. This was done using several specific diagnostic tunes that supplied different data. There's one nicknamed "Prius pulling a trailer" that takes forever in time and distance to get to 8000 rpm in 3d gear. Takes a lot longer than an hour on a dyno, of course.
I believe AP1Chief uses a similar methodology. Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
The following 2 users liked this post by Chuck S:
CH53Driver (05-29-2019),
F1TwoThousand (02-22-2019)
03-24-2019, 10:11 AM
#12
As usual Chuck, well thought out logical reply.
Two means to the same end. I look at it this way.
BLUF (bottom line up front): If you're super/turbocharged it doesn't matter; go for convenience. If normally aspirated a road/etune will be better. All opinion, of course.
A dynamometer is a simulator with the car running on rollers that simulate the road and maybe simulate air resistance but I don't recall anyone setting the coefficient of aerodynamic drag. If you want a "max number" for cars-and-coffee get the car dyno-tuned for that maximum number which will be at an engine speed you'll run for only a few seconds if at all. If you're putting in 15 pounds of boost five or ten HP doesn't matter either way but it does in a normally aspirated car as well as where that extra power is in the rev range. Getting and keeping the engine on the high power cam is vital.
I'm more interested in how the car performs in the rpm range where I drive and in real, not simulated conditions. A road tune will be run with the car in the configuration you want (roof up or down?) -- a dyno can't simulate these conditions that I'm aware of. Real road. Real air resistance. Real driver's weight. Tuner in the car, or live data stream can dial things in right then. With enough data it can be done in an office but it takes more time for the data and tunes to pass via emails. My Gernby FlashPro tune used, I'm guessing, 60+ "runs" to redline to dial in. This was done using several specific diagnostic tunes that supplied different data. There's one nicknamed "Prius pulling a trailer" that takes forever in time and distance to get to 8000 rpm in 3d gear. Takes a lot longer than an hour on a dyno, of course. I believe AP1Chief uses a similar methodology.
Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
BLUF (bottom line up front): If you're super/turbocharged it doesn't matter; go for convenience. If normally aspirated a road/etune will be better. All opinion, of course.
A dynamometer is a simulator with the car running on rollers that simulate the road and maybe simulate air resistance but I don't recall anyone setting the coefficient of aerodynamic drag. If you want a "max number" for cars-and-coffee get the car dyno-tuned for that maximum number which will be at an engine speed you'll run for only a few seconds if at all. If you're putting in 15 pounds of boost five or ten HP doesn't matter either way but it does in a normally aspirated car as well as where that extra power is in the rev range. Getting and keeping the engine on the high power cam is vital.
I'm more interested in how the car performs in the rpm range where I drive and in real, not simulated conditions. A road tune will be run with the car in the configuration you want (roof up or down?) -- a dyno can't simulate these conditions that I'm aware of. Real road. Real air resistance. Real driver's weight. Tuner in the car, or live data stream can dial things in right then. With enough data it can be done in an office but it takes more time for the data and tunes to pass via emails. My Gernby FlashPro tune used, I'm guessing, 60+ "runs" to redline to dial in. This was done using several specific diagnostic tunes that supplied different data. There's one nicknamed "Prius pulling a trailer" that takes forever in time and distance to get to 8000 rpm in 3d gear. Takes a lot longer than an hour on a dyno, of course.
I believe AP1Chief uses a similar methodology.Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
05-29-2019, 03:02 PM
#13
It's ironic that I stumbled across this post aboout 15 minutes after I had emailed Jeff Evans some questions about a project I have. I live within a short drive of the tuner shop mentioned in post #1 of this thread and was in the process of starting my dream of building a car from the ground up. Unfortunately, my experience hasn't been the most positive so I have moved on and am currently looking for a reputable tuner to help get my car up and running properly once I have all the mechanicals sorted out. I have always tried to support my local shops, but the most important thing to me is trust established through actions, then words.
So my recommendation would be to find someone who has a good repuation but more importantly demonstrates comptetence and passion for what they do. These character traits will be self-evident for any person/tuner/shop that actively involves their customers in achieving whatever goal(s) the customer is trying to accomplish. The automotive industry is a fickle place and us gearheads are even more fickle at times. How any shop that specializes in a niche market can survive in today's business climate without demonstrating 100% committment to the customer is beyond me. Sure, an exhaust install here and a tune there can bring in some immediate cash flow, but sustaining a business means investing in your customers. Happy customers are repeat customers and more importantly provide free advertisement for the business.
These are just my opinions of course. I have watched quite a few of Jeff Evans videos and they seem well sorted and while his delivery style is a little flat, he certainly seems like he has the best intentions of his current and potential customers at heart. I am not looking for a dyno queen, my goals are certainly more road oriented so we shall see if Mr. Evans is the right tuner for me. Sounds like the OP has already had a positive experience, which is helping me think I made the right choice after months of not getting anywhere with the local shop.
So my recommendation would be to find someone who has a good repuation but more importantly demonstrates comptetence and passion for what they do. These character traits will be self-evident for any person/tuner/shop that actively involves their customers in achieving whatever goal(s) the customer is trying to accomplish. The automotive industry is a fickle place and us gearheads are even more fickle at times. How any shop that specializes in a niche market can survive in today's business climate without demonstrating 100% committment to the customer is beyond me. Sure, an exhaust install here and a tune there can bring in some immediate cash flow, but sustaining a business means investing in your customers. Happy customers are repeat customers and more importantly provide free advertisement for the business.
These are just my opinions of course. I have watched quite a few of Jeff Evans videos and they seem well sorted and while his delivery style is a little flat, he certainly seems like he has the best intentions of his current and potential customers at heart. I am not looking for a dyno queen, my goals are certainly more road oriented so we shall see if Mr. Evans is the right tuner for me. Sounds like the OP has already had a positive experience, which is helping me think I made the right choice after months of not getting anywhere with the local shop.
05-29-2019, 03:08 PM
#14
Two means to the same end. I look at it this way.
Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
Something tells me professional race teams probably don't simply dyno tune and they use "road" tuning to get maximum power where they want it. Heck if it's legal under the race rules it wouldn't surprise me if there was some guy in the pits with a computer changing the tune while the car is on the circuit. Actually wouldn't surprise me if they were doing it and it was not legal.
-- Chuck
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