Fuel system for 1000 whp
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 4
Pump flow is based more on so many factors you can't just say "one guy made this much and was out of pump so thats the limit".
Pump flow is based on pressure. On a 1:1 reg the amount of boost the car runs will also determine pump flow. This is why I have tuned cars on a walbro 485 and made over 700 wheel on E70 and had another car run out of pump on 500 wheel E70.......So is the walbro 485 good for 500 or 700?!?!??!
See. Answer is it depends. What really trips people out is when big displacement V8 guys will run big twin turbo set-ups at like 6 psi, so if base is 40, then at a pump pressure of 46 psi, and will make over 800 wheel on a single walbro 485 on E70 yet a honda guy on a 1.6L turbo running 28 psi of boost so 68 psi pump pressure runs out of fuel at 500.
If you go look at the flow charts for fuel pumps it will JUMP RIGHT OUT AT YOU.
Also the above is based on the fact that there are no other blocks in flow. So -8 or -10 supply line is used with no neck down fittings.
Pump flow is based on pressure. On a 1:1 reg the amount of boost the car runs will also determine pump flow. This is why I have tuned cars on a walbro 485 and made over 700 wheel on E70 and had another car run out of pump on 500 wheel E70.......So is the walbro 485 good for 500 or 700?!?!??!
See. Answer is it depends. What really trips people out is when big displacement V8 guys will run big twin turbo set-ups at like 6 psi, so if base is 40, then at a pump pressure of 46 psi, and will make over 800 wheel on a single walbro 485 on E70 yet a honda guy on a 1.6L turbo running 28 psi of boost so 68 psi pump pressure runs out of fuel at 500.
If you go look at the flow charts for fuel pumps it will JUMP RIGHT OUT AT YOU.
Also the above is based on the fact that there are no other blocks in flow. So -8 or -10 supply line is used with no neck down fittings.
Community Organizer
Joined: Jun 2007
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Likes: 566
But what pressure was he running? Fuel flow/volume is what you need along with a pressure range that your injectors like. Every injector has an operating window, usually around 35to95psi. I don't have a ton of experience running this level of fuel system, but I have played around enough to gather that you need enough flow to supply the size injector and its duty/output primarily, and if you fall short on duty, you can compensate with upping the pressure as long as you have enough fuel volume being supplied to the rail. I have one 340 pump that I run 85psi and I could crank it up higher and the pump will produce the pressure with a stock S2k rail which means less injector duty for me if that's how I choose to run it. So I guess you need to figure out how many GPM one of your pumps puts out and add a pump until you hit the hp mark you need? There are calculators for this. But you will have to account for the whole fuel system, not just the injector size. My guess is your right at the cusp of needing a 3rd pump. Or 2 450's.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,601
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From: Zionsville, IN
Chadd, the next step is going to be pricey one any way you look at it.
Adding multiple pumps is nothing short of a bandaid and a ticking time bomb. I've done it before, but I was a nervous wreck. I most certainly didn't do it once we were over 1000hp.
The next step is either going to require a sumped tank or surge tank and a larger electric or mechanical pump. Many ways to attack that, all will require a decent investment.
Electric pumps flow decrease with pressure and electrical load drastically increases. For example, Weldon's biggest electric pump isn't even rated to run over 80psi of pressure. Which why I alway would recommend a mechanical pump at those HP levels because they are just the opposite.
I have ran damn near every fuel system combination throughout the years. Surge tanks, sumped tanks, electrical pump, multiple electric pumps, mechanical pumps, electric feeding surge tanks to mechanical, single and dual injector setups, upstream injectors, nozzles, etc. Where you are at, you are going to need to invest some money into your fuel system to safely fuel it at 1000whp+ on E85. Of course, people will tell me I'm crazy, they got a buddy that did this or that, you don't need to invest that kind of money into the fuel system, but in the long run, at 1000hp+ there is really only 1 right way to do it. It's actually just simple math.
Adding multiple pumps is nothing short of a bandaid and a ticking time bomb. I've done it before, but I was a nervous wreck. I most certainly didn't do it once we were over 1000hp.
The next step is either going to require a sumped tank or surge tank and a larger electric or mechanical pump. Many ways to attack that, all will require a decent investment.
Electric pumps flow decrease with pressure and electrical load drastically increases. For example, Weldon's biggest electric pump isn't even rated to run over 80psi of pressure. Which why I alway would recommend a mechanical pump at those HP levels because they are just the opposite.
I have ran damn near every fuel system combination throughout the years. Surge tanks, sumped tanks, electrical pump, multiple electric pumps, mechanical pumps, electric feeding surge tanks to mechanical, single and dual injector setups, upstream injectors, nozzles, etc. Where you are at, you are going to need to invest some money into your fuel system to safely fuel it at 1000whp+ on E85. Of course, people will tell me I'm crazy, they got a buddy that did this or that, you don't need to invest that kind of money into the fuel system, but in the long run, at 1000hp+ there is really only 1 right way to do it. It's actually just simple math.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Chadd, the next step is going to be pricey one any way you look at it.
Adding multiple pumps is nothing short of a bandaid and a ticking time bomb. I've done it before, but I was a nervous wreck. I most certainly didn't do it once we were over 1000hp.
The next step is either going to require a sumped tank or surge tank and a larger electric or mechanical pump. Many ways to attack that, all will require a decent investment.
Electric pumps flow decrease with pressure and electrical load drastically increases. For example, Weldon's biggest electric pump isn't even rated to run over 80psi of pressure. Which why I alway would recommend a mechanical pump at those HP levels because they are just the opposite.
I have ran damn near every fuel system combination throughout the years. Surge tanks, sumped tanks, electrical pump, multiple electric pumps, mechanical pumps, electric feeding surge tanks to mechanical, single and dual injector setups, upstream injectors, nozzles, etc. Where you are at, you are going to need to invest some money into your fuel system to safely fuel it at 1000whp+ on E85. Of course, people will tell me I'm crazy, they got a buddy that did this or that, you don't need to invest that kind of money into the fuel system, but in the long run, at 1000hp+ there is really only 1 right way to do it. It's actually just simple math.
Adding multiple pumps is nothing short of a bandaid and a ticking time bomb. I've done it before, but I was a nervous wreck. I most certainly didn't do it once we were over 1000hp.
The next step is either going to require a sumped tank or surge tank and a larger electric or mechanical pump. Many ways to attack that, all will require a decent investment.
Electric pumps flow decrease with pressure and electrical load drastically increases. For example, Weldon's biggest electric pump isn't even rated to run over 80psi of pressure. Which why I alway would recommend a mechanical pump at those HP levels because they are just the opposite.
I have ran damn near every fuel system combination throughout the years. Surge tanks, sumped tanks, electrical pump, multiple electric pumps, mechanical pumps, electric feeding surge tanks to mechanical, single and dual injector setups, upstream injectors, nozzles, etc. Where you are at, you are going to need to invest some money into your fuel system to safely fuel it at 1000whp+ on E85. Of course, people will tell me I'm crazy, they got a buddy that did this or that, you don't need to invest that kind of money into the fuel system, but in the long run, at 1000hp+ there is really only 1 right way to do it. It's actually just simple math.
Lol that is so true. Plain and simple you need lots of investment to make over 1000whp on E85. I did go from two 340lph in tank to 450 in tank and had minimal improvement in duty cycle on my 450 pumps. I really do think that the stock fuel bowl does not fill fast enough for a full 1/4 mile run with dual high flow pumps at that power level. I had my base fuel pressure at 52-53psi at 41 PSI of boost so everything was absolutely maxed out.
I have gone to a sumped tank now and went to the AEM 380lph pumps which flow more at higher PSI than any of those pumps to achieve 1000hp on e85 but this would also be at the limit. I tried to get a couple of the Omega brushless pumps but they became "unavailable" so a good option is to have two magnafuel 750's with staged engagement or just go all out with a mechanical setup. I think Carey is right, mechanical or bust above 1000hp on e85, you can't beat the reliability and volume of fuel.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Very true true that does work as well, just need an ecu that will control that many injectors and does add another level of complexity.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,505
Likes: 49
From: Sellersburg, IN
Thanks for the advice Carey and everyone, really appreciate that. Is it possible to get a mechanical pump to work with all of the stock accessories or would I have to give up A/C to get it done? If it's possible, do you just run something like a 340 pump from the tank to the mechanical or would you need to run a 340 to a surge tank and then another larger pump to feed the mechanical? I'm just not sure on how that system should be setup. Please excuse my ignorance on it.