Probably Time to Part Ways With my S2000. Endless Problems. Manifold Cracked.
 

I don't know how many people here are really familiar with my build history, but it's been one problem after another.

I made some classic noob mistakes in the beginning by trying to custom piece used parts together off of this forum rather than just buying a kit. This resulted in a lot of things not fitting correctly and having to be replaced and swapped out. While my intent was to save money, I ended up losing a lot more both in cash and time as things had to be restructured and replaced. I had "cut corners" in places that I thought would be safe and still work out, but everything still came back to bite me in the ass.

After the build was finally done, taking much more time and cash than the results warranted, the first problem I encountered was with my ventilation lines for my catch can melting and eventually causing a fire over my turbo blanket. Nylon lines vented on the exhaust side of the valve cover running directly over the turbo blanket/exhaust housing is a bad idea it turns out. During this time I also found out that my manifold bolts had been backing out, and that the flange on both the manifold and the turbo had been warped.

I had the manifold and turbo flanges resurfaced, and had my old valve cover ported on the correct side of the cover (intake) and ran new steel lines for the catch can. Everything got bolted back down into place, and I've been making a point to keep an eye on my bolts for the time being to ensure they don't get backed out while I work on a more permanent solution (nordlock washers + lock tite). All lines, fittings, and wires that were damaged from the fire were replaced, but the hood still has a nasty scorch mark. Although unrelated, around this time the plastic rear window on my soft top also ripped all the way across the back, which was unfortunate because my top was in excellent condition despite being 15 years old. I had a valve adjustment done and noticed that one of the stem seals on cylinder 4 had started leaking as well, and although that's a minor issue now I know it will have to be addressed at some point in the future.

I thought things may finally start looking up for me, but only a week after getting the car back on the road I drove about 25 miles out of town and noticed that my AFR started to lean out slightly, especially noticeable at idle and in between gears. I popped the hood and noticed a small amount of smoke coming from the exhaust side, and noticed that my manifold had gotten cracked in two locations (in between runners 3 & 4, and on the collector just before the turbo flange).

I've only put about 2500 miles on the car since last March, when all this build bullshit started. Every time I turn around this car slaps me in the face, and although most of it has been caused due to my own issues with learning curves a lot of it has really been amplified by just really shitty luck.

I'm supposed to be moving out of the state sometime this summer. I can't take an unreliable car up with me (hell, the car wouldn't even make the drive unless it was towed). Up until now I've had the good fortune of being able to borrow my late grandfather's Jeep every time my car has been down, but I will not have that option available once I move away from my hometown and my parents.

I can try to justify and rationalize this as a valuable learning experience, but I'm now stuck with a car that will certainly sell less than what I paid for it stock due to the issues that have accumulated on it, and that's not even counting the 10K+ that I've wasted away into a failed turbo build.

Lesson here: Don't do turbo builds with a limited budget and limited time. This car has stressed the hell out of me in between the time that I've spent at work and in school as well, and has seriously taken a toll on me mentally.

The shop I've been working with said that the manifold likely cracked due to a combination of possible manufacture defect and possibly from the fire a month+ ago. It's definitely possible that going from a hot state of being driven 50+ miles out of town that night to then being put out with a fire extinguisher caused damage to the metal from going to a hot/cold state so suddenly, but I don't think there would have been a delay this long for the cracks to appear.

I noticed that night my exhaust housing on the turbo was glowing red hot when I pulled into my apartments. I had been driving quite casually on the highway, and this leads me to believe that something is causing my car to run much hotter than it should be. My AFR's have looked fine (whenever there's no exhaust leaks going on) however this could possibly be an issue with the tune and ignition/detonation occurring inside the manifold. Either way, I think there's more at play here than just that single fire incident. I'm really not sure but regardless of the fire my turbo/mani does seem to run hotter than it should.

Regardless of what's happening, I can't keep chasing this car in circles. I've wasted way too much money and time on this, and it's time for me to just cut my losses and admit defeat. This entire ordeal has been a monumental kick in my pride and wallet. I don't have near enough money saved now for moving out of state, and I owe quite a bit to my father at this point.

I realize that for many reading this my problems seem like they should have been obvious, or certain things should have been done to avoid this, but as I said this was my first major build and I made the bad decision of over complicating things for myself from the beginning and have been paying the price ever since.

I'm probably going to, for the hundredth time, disassemble the turbo and the manifold and get the manifold replaced under warranty by Kings, and then sell the car.

I'm sorry to hear that bud. Sounds so much like my first s2k build. 1 problem after another once I boosted it with a pieced together turbo kit. I sold it after becoming so annoyed with everything. 3 years later I purchased my current s2k and after learning from all my mistakes on first build, I was able to build a reliable one at 500whp. If you're not doing all the work yourself it really isn't worth it. When I say reliable I mean fixing small issues myself that arise on the car every 2 weeks or so. My car would be in the shop every few weeks if I didn't build it myself and know how to fix everything myself.

Take your time and try not to freak out. Instead of thinking about getting rid of the car think of other ways to make it fun. Maybe a turbo car isn't for you, how about a SC car? You definitely can not do a high turbo car without enough money. Most people do them in stages like 300whp, save some money then go for 350whp, save some more go for 400whp, save more then 450whp until goal(s) is reached. Patience is key to victory :) It will get better

Sell the Turbo kit and go with a SOS supercharger or back to NA. Its not the cars fault.

Buy my Kraftwerks kit so i can buy the SOS Turbo Kit... :rolleyes:

Thanks. I'm really racking my brains right now trying to figure out a game plan. I really don't want to sell the car right now because if I do I'll have no choice but to putt around in a little econobox for a couple years, but that may be the safest and most practical route right now.

Now that I'm thinking about it though, the worst that could happen if I continued to drive it after getting the manifold fixed is that the next manifold would just crack too, at which point I'd just go through this same process. I may as well keep the car for another couple/few months at least and see how the next one holds up.

Just a lot to consider, but that seems to be the best option to go with right now. Also path of least resistance lol.

I know it's not the cars fault. Every issue I've had has been because of something that I did slightly improperly. It's just all been collateral damage.


Anyway, thanks for the responses guys. I definitely just needed to vent/bitch for a bit lol. If I had to do this all over again, like others are saying, I'd either do an F22 N/A or a supercharger.

I'd listen to these guys. Go back stock or sc and enjoy the car and revisit later. If you need a new top, I'll be removing mine with a glass window off my original 16k mile s2k that has been garage kept since new in 02 and never sat in the sun. The top is perfect but not off the car yet and not sure what to price it at. Just an option if you want a glass window top to replace the plastic window unit.

For the time/cash it'd take to go back to stock or SC I'd be better off just selling the car. I'll hold onto the car at least for a couple months more to see if it was just bad luck with the manifold; Nothing much to lose there since worst case scenario (theoretically) I'd just have to go through the warranty process again in the event of another failure. My tuner can also do a ride along with me and monitor things on the EMS and with the car and we can see if there's an issue there.... There may still be hope I guess lol.

I'd definitely be interested in the top depending on if I decide to keep the car and how much you want for it.

I was planning on getting a new Robbins glass top for like $650.

Another option is fixing it and then not touching it until you have a usable budget for it in case it breaks. It's cheap to go back to stock, all you would need is intake and header and street tune :) Me personally, I would fix it, then reduce the amount of boost you're currently running by 25-50% until a budget is developed or another route you want to take becomes clear.

Another option is fixing it and then not touching it until you have a usable budget for it in case it breaks. It's cheap to go back to stock, all you would need is intake and header and street tune :) Me personally, I would fix it, then reduce the amount of boost you're currently running by 25-50% until a budget is developed or another route you want to take becomes clear.
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These are good ideas. I honestly hate to admit it but for some reason I didn't think about just doing something like that to go back to N/A. For some reason I kept thinking I'd have to completely replace the stock vacuum system so I could run the stock ECU again, but it'd actually just be a lot easier to leave in the AEM and tune around it. Most expensive cost of that would just be a retune, that could all get done really cheap.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

where in Texas are you i am redoing my supercharger kit i have about 40k miles boosted and have built several turbo cars maybe the guys around dfw can help sort some of youre problems. It sounds like your running lean at part throttle or too much timing causing excessive egt's that's what usually kills the manifold. i run a pyrometer on all the turbo vehicles i have built with that and an afr gauge you can get reliability https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/public/st...t-tip-wink.gif

I love my 600whp turbo s2000. And I simply cannot stand driving a NA or supercharged s2000. The issue is not the car it's YOU. You don't have the time money and the mechanical know how as well as the patience to own and opperiate a high power turbo s2000. You also need a second car with a high power s2000. I love my s2000 I do try to alway keep it running and I try to put a good amount of miles on it but generally I do work on the car on average of at least once a week at least for a few hours always fixing things here and there.
Most of your issues were either a bad choice on parts or improperly installed parts.

Also it's normally for a turbo and manifold to glow red. If I pop my hood at night after driver my turbo s2000 normally with out even boosting the turbo is glowing red. Turbos and tubular manifold get extreamely hot and proper heat shielding and relocations of important parts close to the heat is very important.

I also can't even believe you still have your original 2000-2001 plastic window top. Your bitching cuz your top ripped. Are u kidding me. I'm on my 3rd top already. You can normally only expect the top to last 5-8 years before its needs to be replaced. I normally just but a ex on top on eBay for $450 on eBay and spend a day to change it.

Hey sorry for your hard times. I had a similar issue with my civic but at the end of the day i stuck through it and i enjoyed it while i could. One thing i learned is not to worry about future loss when you build your car. I love my s2k and i may take a hit on it but the joy i get everytime i get in it makes me forget about that.
Im gonna be switching out my log manifold this winter and if you want ill give you a great deal on the manifold and downpipe. Its a kings stage 1. Its not gonna crack.

I said numerous times in this thread that I realize all of my problems are sourced from some form of my own shortcomings. I should have waited until other areas in my life were quieter to start this build since I knew there would be a learning curve, and waited until I had the money to do it properly.

I'm also not bitching that my top ripped. I'm saying it's unfortunate because I knew my top was in abnormally good condition for being 15 years old . The cloth was immaculate, it was just the rear plastic window had finally had enough.

Get over yourself.

I couldn't stand driving a turbo that I had to work on at least once a week or always fixing things here and there. My supercharger was installed 3 years and 40,000 miles ago and all I've done is oil changes and basic maintenance. In my opinion thats what the OP needs because like me, his life seems to be super busy in other areas. Don't underestimate 340 to 380 rwhp on this car that will still maintain the original characteristics of the motor and be factory reliable.

My car has been pretty reliable while its been boosted.

Turbos are reliable with proper setup, know how, and maintenance. It shouldn't need to be fixed or worked on weekly. But my point was a sc is probably easier to take care of for people like me who don't necessarily have the time or detailed knowledge like others on this forum.

Selling a troublesome car will be difficult unless you misrepresent it...

-- Chuck

Sorry to hear. I also peiced togeather my kit, but half of it was brand new. The only thing i bought used was the manifold and down pipe. I definitely learned a lot from this site to not take the "cheap/short" route to building a reliable turbo s2000. I didnt build my car myself,but i made sure everything that was going on would be the best of the best (that i could afford, and that i thought nessasary.) Ive only had my car turboed for 1 year so far, and its been flawless other than a leaky fpr that has been on the car before since 2006. I hope my car will be perfect for a while longer, but you never know. I believe being turbo really makes this car a lot more fun. Ive been supercharged, and its not nearly as fun, but thats probably because i had the old comptech kit and only made 350whp.

Just go high boost SC. Base SC is weak for sure. I've had my SC kit for 8.5 years and have no regrets. You shouldn't have to work on your car except for basic car maintainence.

The way I see it is that you already spent so much money and work so far to get where your at and still you have not enjoyed the joy of driving a turbo s2000. Why give up now? Your already did 95% of the work. It's just the last 5% into get the car perfect is always the hardest part. Just stick it through and fix the problems that arise. Just think about why you did all this? Think about how bad it was driving an NA s2000.

Let's not jump out the window on this. A stock S2000 is a great car. Sometimes we in this forum tend to forget that. Lots of guys have gone the other way and are happier because the headaches aren't worth it to them.

Hey mate it sounds like you dont have the cash flow to keep the S2000 high HP on the road.

It is so relaxing driving an S2000 that is NA. No issues at all and hassle free.

Perhaps sell it and buy a car that will give you no grief as you sound like a high HP build is not for you.
Good luck :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

OP,
Keep the car. (you'll regret selling her)
Remove all turbo components minus AEM ECU.
Put back to N/A.
Tune.
Sell as much of the crap you removed as possible.
Move-on with many lessons learned.
Boost in the future when you are making $$ and ready!

wow! This sounds incredibly like my situation...2 times! I owned a 1994 Honda Prelude VTEC which I boosted on a very tight budget and cut corners like you wouldn't believe! I ended up replacing A LOT of parts (all used...even with the replacement parts) and in the end it was okay at best. I drove the car boosted with minimal issues for a short while and then sold it soon after so I'm certain that it encountered many more issues. Was glad to get rid of it.

Fast forward to my current S. I bought my car about 6 years ago and knew that it was going to need a power upgrade so I started buying parts but stupid, old thinking me decided to do the same thing as before and buy used parts and cheap parts! You'd think we'd learn from old mistakes. As I collected the parts, I drove the car stock for maybe 2 years and then finally got everything I needed to turbo it...I even used Emanage ultimate!! Blah!! In any case, I boosted it, and it ran and all for around 2000 dollars but for some reason, I had issues with the e manage so I ditched it and went aem. Drove the car for about 9 months and blew it racing a bike so had a shop from this site (Jason from CNC I believe...there's an entire thread on him) sell me a "built" bottom end which in the end was bad and lost even more money from them.

I finally said, "screw it" so I gave the car to a friend who runs a shop here in my home town and he basically got rid of everything that was crap (which was pretty much my entire set up!) and started over. We tried to reuse what was salvageable from my initial setup but even those things eventually gave up and needed to be replaced. As a matter of fact, I had the car finally tuned after being in the shop for over 2.5 years having everything replaced and was able to drive it this summer. So much fun but again, another problem occurred. Up until then, the only things I haven't replaced were the turbo, exhaust manifold, intercooler and injectors. The turbo finally shat the bed and I am currently having that replaced. It was an older garrett t3/t4 journal bearing unit and I'm getting it replaced with a borg warner unit. It's winter so no worries but I'm just waiting for my log manifold to bite the dust now!

In the end, I feel your pain and all I can say is, if you like the car, stick with it and buy a beater to drive around in while the S is in repair mode. Buy quality/new parts if you can and just stick with it if your wallet will allow you. For me, if I were to get rid of it now, I'd have nothing to show for it and when I would want another S, it would be a hell of a lot more money for me to start from scratch rather than just taking a break.

I really hope that when I get my car back this spring, the turbo is even better and I don't have to worry about any issues but we all know that in this game, there's always something that we'll need to look at!

Good luck bro!

The biggest problem of turbo builds is cracking manifolds. They all crack. Some last for weeks and some last for years...But they all crack. This is one of main reasons we sell Kraftwerks supercharger kits, 23 S2000 kits installed and no issues.
Don't give up on the car, you will need to spend $40K+ to get anything better.

That's the price to be paid when using pipe in an application where pipe should not be used.

It's because literally every vendor outside of Killer B Motorsports, MPFab and a few of the boutiques use garbage 304L which just plain isn't meant for high heat turbo applications. God forbid you coat one of these timebombs and expect it to hold your heavy turbo AND all the heat inside of it without cracking. I don't understand why the vendors who charge 1200+ for a manifold can't be assed to spend $200 on materials instead of $100 to ensure that they don't crack. 321 isn't that expensive.


Good luck with your quest to get your car finished OP. Turbo cars can be a pain if you don't know exactly what to do.

Correct, The cast elbows used for this cost around $6 each and manufactured for everything except'Turbo manifolds'

We use 321 Stainless with rigid mount turbos and double slip collectors.(See our K-Sight AWD) But like I mentioned...They all crack..It's the one thing you can bet on.

Do they all Crack at the welded joints? What about additional supports for the turbo assembly?

Your 321 parts cracked? Schedule 40 or 10? What filler rod were you using and what did you use for supports? I've found that using some grade 5 titanium is the best to mount turbos since it'll stand up to the vibration and heat.

Never had a problem, ever. Of course I can always get inconel 625, but then we're talking money.

Mine is 321 tubing (16 gauge), no issues

Lol!! I got the same response in my post with the "high power s2000".. reading through this made me feel better about what I'm going through... it could be way worse and I haven't even gotten my car up and running yet

Are there any turbo manifolds on the market for S2000s that you guys think would be more reliable? I can't possibly imagine that every turbo user on these forums has cracked a manifold at some point, even the 304. I feel like a lot of these manifolds should at least last for a couple years of daily use, even with the occasional romp on the throttle. I'd imagine I'd see a lot more broken manifold posts if that wasn't the case.

Update on my status: The initial cracks on my manifold were re-welded. Funny enough, when I took everything apart I mentioned to my shop that it seemed like the wastegate (which they first put on after welding on an adapter for the flange) was making contact with the motor mount. They assured me that when they put everything together there was a small gap. I now have everything re-assembled, and the manifold cracked AGAIN. I can feel with my finger that there is absolutely no gap and no space between the wastegate and the motor mount. I think when the engine torques it's pushing upward on that wastegate and pushing the manifold so it cracks.

Going to try replacing the manifold under warranty again (really don't want to re-weld a manifold for a second time, seems like I'd be asking for trouble) and having a word with my shop. If the wastegate isn't making contact with that motor mount, I'd like to imagine that the manifold would hold up for some time but now the conversation above about 304 vs 321 steel is making me worry regardless.

Full-Race don't crack.

Full Race only offers their "ProStreet" ram horn T3 manifold and their forward facing manifold. I absolutely would not want to risk buying the ProStreet manifold as I'm already aware of the MASSIVE issue of fitment with bottom mount ram horns on our cars. The forward facing looks good however would require me to relocate my catch can and also fabricate new hot side intercooler pipes.

If I ever swapped out my King Performance log manifold I was hoping to get a Pfab ELT twin scroll here: http://www.pfabrications.com/inc/sdetail/2724/2486. That should require minimal modification to my current pipes.

I suppose I could always call Pang and ask him to fabricate it custom with 321 steel?

Anyway, definitely not writing off forward facing manifolds entirely yet and keeping my option open. I'm curious to hear from CRVRX, Steven, or NWDyno if they have any opinions on manifold manufacturers.

What it comes to turbo manifolds nohing beats the quality of full race. It's very rare for their manifolds to crack and if it does you know they will be around for the warrantee. Most manifold makers even though they offer life time warrentee they typically don't stay in business for very long. My full race t4 twin scroll manifold for my lancer evo8 has over 80,000 miles on it and has never has any issues.

You really want a manifold that uses schedule 40 piping and not the typical schedule 10. Scheduled 10 is just not thick enough to last and always ends up cracking. Pfab is scheduled 10 and I have seen there manifolds crack many times. Full race uses nice thick schedule 40.

Also it's very important that everything clears the manifold. When the motor moves and if the manifold hits something. It will crack. My track forged sidewinder manifold is made of schedual 40. The manifold weights a ton. But the manifold wastegate elbow was too close to the subframe and every hard brake the engine would rock forward and the wastegate would touch the subframe and I could heard it vibrate. It lasted about a year at 10,000 miles before it cracked from that spot. Track forged warrenteed it and made me a new manifold and it has no clearance problems. And it's been good for the past few years at over 15,000 miles. But I suspect track forged is out of business now since they are not active on the forums and their website is gone.

Moral of the story is buy a good manifold made from thick schedule 40 pipe from a repetiable company that will be around for a long time. I recommend full race.

Just wanted to add that Full Blown also use schedule 40 on their manifolds. OP, which mounts are you using?

Full race sidewinder twin scroll here for years. Manifold never cracked. Now the dump tubes is another story. But once they were braced to the block zero problems.

You pretty much hit on all my concerns in your post. I've seen a few posts about the Pfab manifolds cracking as well, seemingly moreso than some other manufactures.

I'd definitely be interested in their "ProStreet" manifold, but as you said I think clearance would be a huge issue. Judging by where the 44mm wastegate would have to sit, I think getting both the turbo and downpipe/dumptube to fit would be an issue. You'd also be dangerously close to the passenger sidewall. My best bet for longevity sake would probably be to just switch out my catch can and relocate that, and just fabricate new intercooler pipes to use with Full Race's sidewinder mani.

I'm also 100% sure now that my wastegate is making direct contact with my passenger motor mount. I think that's why my manifolds are cracking so quickly. The shop that welded my wastegate adapter flange on for me said there were no clearance issues, but they were wrong.

I'm still on OEM motor mounts, with no torque damper. I may invest in Vibratech mounts and/or a torque damper after getting my manifold replaced.

Don't forget about Full Race.