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Rotrex C30-94 supercharger install and modification: pulley choice

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Rotrex C30-94 supercharger install and modification: pulley choice

 
Old 11-17-2018, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pizzai69 View Post
Thanks for your experience with E85 !
E85 fuel pumps are rare near my home, but they exist. So a flexfuel tune can be interesting !
I have RC 750 injectors, and Walbro 255 pump: following the first informations I found, this seems to be too small for E85 400bhp tune. It looks like I would have to go ID 1000 at least...


I know your fabulous thread, but had not read it entire. Thanks for the second link for the piping and IC modification, which is quite similair to what I aim to do.
Your car is awesome!

I won't reach that level of perfection, neither that level of power with my C30, but some modifications are interesting

I have 3 options:
- don't touch anything, stay 370bhp
- change IC for a bigger one, upgrade hot piping to 2.5" (even if blower output is only 2"...) and cold piping to 3" => maybe 20bhp to hope ??
- do that AND change injectors fuel pump + add flexfuel E85 sensor and tune => maybe 40-50bhp to hope ??
Thank you for the kind words.

Now, to answer your questions...

I have 3 options:
- don't touch anything, stay 370bhp (too boring...and no fun! ...don't do this!)

- change IC for a bigger one, upgrade hot piping to 2.5" (even if blower output is only 2"...) and cold piping to 3" => maybe 20bhp to hope ?? (yes, do this! ...but maybe keep original I/C core and re-work the end tanks...more cost effective than buying a new IC) I'd go 2.75" hot side if you can make it fit...be sure to make all bends and radiuses as gradual as possible and smooth.

- do that AND change injectors fuel pump + add flexfuel E85 sensor and tune => maybe 40-50bhp to hope ?? (yes...this too if you are feeling up to it!)

Good luck!
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:18 AM
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My actual IC is not that big, it's the Supersport version, see dimensions in a previous post.
I can get a brand nwe IC sucah as 500x300x76mm for less than 170$, maybe this is not worth modifying my actual one...

2.75" hot side: isn't it too big ? I mean, the C30 output is only 2"...
Did you feel some "lag" when upgrading bigger piping ?
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pizzai69 View Post
My actual IC is not that big, it's the Supersport version, see dimensions in a previous post.
I can get a brand nwe IC sucah as 500x300x76mm for less than 170$, maybe this is not worth modifying my actual one...

2.75" hot side: isn't it too big ? I mean, the C30 output is only 2"...
Did you feel some "lag" when upgrading bigger piping ?
Well first you can't just buy any I/C core and expect it to be better than the one you have just because it is bigger...that is only one factor in the equation. It should also have equal to or better flow characteristics. Air flow is one thing that many people don't take the time to investigate, but yet is very important. Since there are many different manufacturers of cores there are also many different core designs and therefore flow characteristics. Regarding lag...no I do not have any increase in lag. Since I effectively shortened the entire flow path the response is actually slightly better than it was before. With a supercharger due to its direct drive to the engine, this lag tends to not be as noticeable in the same manner as a turbo setup. You can see this in comparisons between the TTS kit and the KW kit. The only real difference is the I/C core...from a flow point of view. The TTS kit tends to make a bit more power and have a slightly higher boost level.

Last edited by 06S2k07Si; 11-17-2018 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:26 AM
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Make sure you upgrade the fuel pump wiring, if you haven't already done that.
I think the Walbro 255 should support over 400whp on E85 but there are better pumps out there so it might be worth upgrading after all.
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:29 AM
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Some people say it is not necessary to re-wire for the Walbro 255.
It was not re-wired on the S2000 that was equiped with my kit, and it worked fine but only 370bhp ...
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:09 AM
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Due to the thin factory wiring there will be a noticeable voltage drop at the pump.
Now the Walbro 255 flows ~255l/h at 3bar and 13.5V, but at 12V it only flows ~220l/h.
Sometimes it works and sometimes not
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:32 AM
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Thanks for precision ! That is a factual answer.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 06S2k07Si View Post
Well first you can't just buy any I/C core and expect it to be better than the one you have just because it is bigger...that is only one factor in the equation. It should also have equal to or better flow characteristics. Air flow is one thing that many people don't take the time to investigate, but yet is very important. Since there are many different manufacturers of cores there are also many different core designs and therefore flow characteristics.
I understand that, but it is quite difficult to have good informations about the IC Cores.

I found this seller :
https://fmic.eu/420-fmiceu

The inside of the Core looks like the left photo:



The seller gives bhp indication for each IC. But it still is difficult to know if is flowing better than my actual TTS Supersport one.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pizzai69 View Post
I understand that, but it is quite difficult to have good informations about the IC Cores.

I found this seller :
https://fmic.eu/420-fmiceu

The inside of the Core looks like the left photo:



The seller gives bhp indication for each IC. But it still is difficult to know if is flowing better than my actual TTS Supersport one.
Yes I agree. It is difficult to know if one core is better than another unless the manufacturer explains the specifics. In the website listed below you will see specifications in their listings for intercoolers that shows the cfm and the pressure loss...this is one way of comparing cores. https://www.treadstoneperformance.co...t=Intercoolers

There are many core designs such as bar and plate (the ones you showed in your pictures) as well as tube and fin (what the TTS race kit's core is) and perhaps others I'm not aware of. Generally speaking the more fins per square inch the better the cooling but may have less flow...not to mention the design of the fins. Getting these two in balance is key...as well as for the given application. For example in something such as track use where continuous heat is a major concern one may forgo maximum flow for better cooling but in something like drag racing ultimate flow and horsepower may be the biggest concern and the best flow will be the major concern to keep horsepower as high as possible but for a short duration.

In my experience the TTS Race kit's I/C core has proven to flow better than some bar and plate designs. I'm not suggesting that either is better overall but each has its benefits. In a street application like my car, I personally would choose better flow over better cooling due to the fact that most of the time the car does not see high intake air temps.

I hope that this helps.

Brian

Last edited by 06S2k07Si; 11-19-2018 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:22 AM
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This sure helps

Note that my acutal TTS Intercooler is "bar and plate" type. (see picture in previous post)
In my case, I want a track proof car, so cooling is important.

I asked directly TTS for advices: they told me that : "For a C30-94 376 hp is quite reasonable. The intercooler is the restriction deliberately to limit power. So going to our Race intercooler would increase power". I am waiting for a quotation on the race IC, as I can't find it on the online shop.
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