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Supercharging in 2018-19; best option?

Old 11-05-2018, 12:13 AM
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Default Supercharging in 2018-19; best option?

So things are progressing a lot faster with my car than initially planned. Supercharging has been the plan for my car since the beginning. I wanted a fun weekend warrior that still has street manners and like-factory drivability.

Right now I have the following setup, I have most of the parts listed sans a few I'm still deciding on.

02 AP1
AP2 retainers/keepers & banjo bolts
Billman TCT
ID1050x injectors
Hondata KPro (CT emissions)
URGE Unicorn header
Berk 70mm test pipe
T1R 70EM single exhaust
Spoon/hardrace/vibratechnics mounts (haven't decided yet)
AEM boost & UEGO wideband
Upgraded radiator & fans (haven't decided here yet either)
Walbro 255 w/ SOS wiring kit (Considering upgrading to the more modern/quieter 450 with the SOS mount kit. Good overhead in case I ever decide to upgrade more in the future.


With that being said I've narrowed down my list to 2 current options: SoS & Kraftwerks.

Truthfully the only thing I really like about the KW kit is the sound of the Rotrex...thing sounds like a straight-up jet. I'd most likely send my car to LHT for this one as I'd want it to be as reliable as possible, and they don't seem to have any problems with their installs on customer cars (as far as we know). Belt replacement sounds like a total pain in the ass, and apparently unless these are set up perfectly they seem to enjoy eating belts, shearing off pulleys, and the like.

Conversely the Paxton Novi sounds more like a coffee grinder, but has proven to be much more reliable, more tolerant of hitting the rev-limiter, etc. I'd be starting with the 1200 series blower and upgraded HX right off the clip. I'd like to get as close to 450whp on 93 as I can. For whatever reason SoS says not to go over 10 psi on pump 93, but I see people pushing above 16 on here all day between Rotrex and Paxtons alike. I'd be running the smallest pulley possible within the safety limit of blower operation. This car is seasonal only so absolutely longevity isn't an absolute priority, but I think a slightly overspun blower can still be considered pretty reliable as many on here have claimed.

Overall the SoS kit seems to be winning in my book in terms of reliability and attention to detail. The only things I'm waiting on are potential competition. Apparently KW recently released an additional add-on bracket to their mounting system for more rigidity that LHT showcased in one of their latest videos that's very similar to one of their own custom brackets that they've been putting on customer cars that adds an additional mounting point/bolt. I'd also like to see the power potential of the C38R which hasn't really been showcased yet. It was supposedly coming out in April, but I haven't seen so much as a whisper of it; just really curious to see its power potential on pump gas over the 38-92 currently offered.

There's one option not mentioned that's still in the up and coming pipe, and that's IMT's 1320 TVS blower kit that they're supposedly releasing next year hopefully. I'm not in a hurry nor am I a huge fan of screw-type blowers, but I'm very curious to see what this can deliver. It's very late to the market so there must be a good reason to put it up against the current offerings.

Just looking for some opinions on what the most sensible course of action would be at this point in time. The SoS kit seems to be a unanimous favorite, but I'm just wondering if a properly installed & potential C38R KW kit is also worth considering, as well as waiting for the twinscrew option from IMT. Thanks for the input gents.

Last edited by Kyle; 11-05-2018 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:18 AM
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SOS has the best S/C kit in my own opinion I had one for 8 years. It was reliable and expansive.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:57 AM
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For all considered, with all out performance, reliability and longevity SOS kit hands down, no comparison. The novi blowers are more indestructible especially if you want to over spin to make more power then the Rotrex units, and the SOS kit itself is less complicated and more refined/durable. And it only sounds like a coffee grinder at idle with the hood open

I think the Rotrex sounds like a big flex fan pushing air and the novi actually has a cool supercharger whistle to it.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:06 PM
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If you are lucky enough to be able to take it to LHT then hands down that is your best option. Having tuning experience for over 50 of the same cars/set up in invaluable!



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Old 11-05-2018, 02:10 PM
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I'd wait for the IMT tvs results, or buy a used SOS kit with one of the future ESS tuning G3 headunits.


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Old 11-05-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by F1TwoThousand View Post
If you are lucky enough to be able to take it to LHT then hands down that is your best option. Having tuning experience for over 50 of the same cars/set up in invaluable!

https://youtu.be/_kal0Etn3sw
LHT would be the only plan for me if I did go the KW route for the exact reason you specified. The only thing is in that specific video LHT even says themselves that the only reason they offer the KW kit over others is because they can sell it for so cheap, and since they've installed so many I'm sure their time/labor costs have gone down quite a bit. In that regard it's just the bang/buck. Obviously it's a quality kit if installed properly because in the same vein LHT doesn't sell something they wouldn't stand behind 100%.

LHT's basic package including installation/dyno tuning/their revisions/walbro pump/new plugs etc is 6700, or 7500 if I choose to go with the -92 blower. Price includes injectors, map sensor, ems and wideband; none of which I require but I'm sure they'd give me a piecemeal quote.

Conversely the SoS kit is 5k with the upgraded HX. If you factor in the cost of buying your own injectors, fuel pump, EMS ($1200) at the cheapest you're looking at around the same cost without tuning and installation. I can see why a shop would offer the KW solution as they can essentially deliver the same power if not more than the SoS kit, installed, at the same price if not cheaper. That's a big deal for most folks I'd imagine. Plus the added experience with exclusively their kit, it makes sense.

I'm not objecting to your input at all as I started this thread asking for it, and my mind isn't made up yet on the matter either. I guess my real question is if cost wasn't a factor which would be the best choice? SoS kit I'd be confident to install myself. KW kit would require transport to and from CT to FL, so any savings would be a moot point. It's simply down to a punching match of which is the best.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jiaim View Post
I'd wait for the IMT tvs results, or buy a used SOS kit with one of the future ESS tuning G3 headunits.
Yeah that's the plan right now. I spoke with them very briefly and got the following response:







Interested to see what happens. Any more info on the ESS G3? I googled it but didn't find anything. Is this a compressor wheel upgrade to Novi 1200 HUs? Seems like they're predominantly a Euro shop.

Last edited by Kyle; 11-05-2018 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:12 PM
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The problem with the rotrex is its limited on how fast it can spin, it has a lower ceiling, and it will grenade if over spun. The novi on the other hand wont, it will just lose efficiency and blow hot air -within reason. So the novi 1200 has a higher power threshold if you run the right pulley and then keep the IAT in check with/meth injection or E85. The Rotrex is a slightly more efficient blower at the same lower pressure so that's why it it yields a little more power under the curve. But that dyno is maxed for that blower and 14psi is in the high mid range for the novi. 500whp+ at 18-24psi on the 1200 possible. The SOS kit is a easy weekend install for the average DIY garage wrench turner. I wouldn't feel as confident abut that with the KW.

Last edited by s2000Junky; 11-05-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
The problem with the rotrex is its limited on how fast it can spin, it has a lower ceiling, and it will grenade if over spun. The novi on the other hand wont, it will just lose efficiency and blow hot air -within reason. So the novi 1200 has a higher power threshold if you run the right pulley and then keep the IAT in check with/meth injection or E85. The Rotrex is a slightly more efficient blower at the same lower pressure so that's why it it yields a little more power under the curve. But that dyno is maxed for that blower and 14psi is in the high mid range for the novi. 500whp+ at 18-24psi on the 1200 possible. The SOS kit is a easy weekend install for the average DIY garage wrench turner. I wouldn't feel as confident abut that with the KW.
Yeah that's the one thing I've seen with the Novi is it seems to have a lower power potential/boost threshold as advertised. I rarely see cars making over 400whp with these and rarely over 12-13 psi. Any idea why that is? Is 450 an unreasonable aspiration on just pump 93 with a 1200? I'd rather not toss in water/meth to something I'm trying to keep simple and reliable. I'll just lower my power expectations I suppose. I just figured a 3.2-3.4" pulley would yield me the results I was looking for over the standard 4" pulley supplied as their "Stage 2" option. The 3.2-3.4" pulleys are advertised to produce 15.5-16 psi on an ap1 respectively.

In the LHT SoS video the black AP2 was (supposedly) using the 3.4" pulley and made 13.7 lbs which yielded 402/256 on a skunk2 header/tp/stock exhaust w/ UK mod. I'm sure belt tension accounts for some power/psi variations but is it not possible to get a consistent 450 whp out of pump gas on this setup? I figured I'm gonna be maxing this kit/headunit out right off the cuff. Is there a particular reason why it's not recommended by SoS to exceed 9-10 psi on 91-93 pump? I read about the heat inefficiencies of the blower you mentioned, would the higher IATs/boost levels lead me to be more prone to detonation? Not trying to sound naïve here, it just seems like the KW kit can make a pretty decent range of power very easily where it seems the top comfortable output for the SoS operating threshold is around 400whp. Also it's not advisable to go smaller than a 3.2" pulley on an AP1, so I'd imagine to produce any more boost I'd need a larger diameter crank pulley? Problem is it seems that in order to spin the blower enough to make 16+ psi I'd be crossing into a danger threshold, no? I've just seen users here get higher numbers/boost than advertised by SoS for pulley combinations etc.

I appreciate your input!

Last edited by Kyle; 11-06-2018 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:09 AM
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All sound like great choices. Just to add some stress SOS has an annual sale i think 5% or 10% off sitewide for black friday. Im looking forward to seeing how that new SC kit performs aswell.
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