Why do so many turbo'd s2k end up for sale?
07-02-2018, 09:56 PM
#1
Why do so many turbo'd s2k end up for sale?
Was looking at how many turbo'd s2k's end up for sale. That got me thinking about what qualities would keep me interested in my turbo s2k longer and in turn what would make me want to sell it.
Picture this typical scenario: Your at a redlight, you eye your temperature gauge like a hawk because you've overheated your turbo'd S2k before. You hear your fuel pump running and tell yourself it's not that bad. You hear your cheap loud oversized fuel injectors clicking loudly(which you thought was a bad lifter or something) and hear your engine with a high-loud-choppy idle because you got that cheap ecu and never got it tuned. Your high idle is not helped by your big drony 3" exhaust and your building up an earache just idling at this red light. Your solid motor mounts are making so many things vibrate inside the cabin and your clutch and flywheel setup are chattering so much it sounds like you've got rod knock to the Prius next to you. Unbeknownst to you this is the reason you started vaping in the first place. And this is all at a red light!
Finally the light turns green and all the vibrations start resonating and for the most part start cancelling each other out. Throughout your varied speed in town you notice the varied 'hum' your wide cheap tires are producing. You also avoid going too fast because of the god awful whine your upgraded diff makes the faster you go. You also feel every bump and grade on the road thanks to your stiff shocks/springs and thick juicy sway bars and you've done lost your appetite . Finally you reach the highway and do some pulls but by this time your so tired of your s2k and it's high 4k rpm at 80pmh you just move over to the right lane, you do 60 in a 70 like a corvette, the prius passes you by doing 80 and you notice their vaping too but they look contempt. You feel somethings missing as the tires, exhaust, diff, fuel injectors, fuel pump, interior and high rpm engine all howl, drone, whine, click, chatter, vibrate and basically work in harmony to murder your ears yet you cant quit put your finger on what it is. Your back hurts as the high spring/shockrates, solid motor mounts, low profile tires with no flex, thick swaybar, and hard leather seat have started to take a toll an hour into your drive. You wash the car, park it in the garage and dont drive it for a month BUT every time you see it you think "she looks pretty". Well gentlemen it took me a while to call out my S2K for what it was. A pretentious build. And that was solely my fault for being so naive and not thinking harder about actually enjoying my car.
Now that i've gone through all the BS i want to address these issues for the noobs and remind anyone thinking of selling their s2k that there is still hope. There are ways to have your cake and eat it too! S2K is an amazing car and taking it to the next level should be done in a smart way to enhance the driving experience not butcher it like a riced out honda civic. You just have to be honest with yourself, not put the s2k on a pedestal and simply be VERY careful and realistic about the mods that you want to add. Having said all this be very wary of added noise and vehicle harshness. Noise and harshness can add up fast. Noise and harshness will sneak up on you to the point you no longer want to drive! Very scary stuff. But just wanted to get the word out no one really addresses how important it is to keep noise and harshness at bay. You've been warned
Picture this typical scenario: Your at a redlight, you eye your temperature gauge like a hawk because you've overheated your turbo'd S2k before. You hear your fuel pump running and tell yourself it's not that bad. You hear your cheap loud oversized fuel injectors clicking loudly(which you thought was a bad lifter or something) and hear your engine with a high-loud-choppy idle because you got that cheap ecu and never got it tuned. Your high idle is not helped by your big drony 3" exhaust and your building up an earache just idling at this red light. Your solid motor mounts are making so many things vibrate inside the cabin and your clutch and flywheel setup are chattering so much it sounds like you've got rod knock to the Prius next to you. Unbeknownst to you this is the reason you started vaping in the first place. And this is all at a red light!
Finally the light turns green and all the vibrations start resonating and for the most part start cancelling each other out. Throughout your varied speed in town you notice the varied 'hum' your wide cheap tires are producing. You also avoid going too fast because of the god awful whine your upgraded diff makes the faster you go. You also feel every bump and grade on the road thanks to your stiff shocks/springs and thick juicy sway bars and you've done lost your appetite . Finally you reach the highway and do some pulls but by this time your so tired of your s2k and it's high 4k rpm at 80pmh you just move over to the right lane, you do 60 in a 70 like a corvette, the prius passes you by doing 80 and you notice their vaping too but they look contempt. You feel somethings missing as the tires, exhaust, diff, fuel injectors, fuel pump, interior and high rpm engine all howl, drone, whine, click, chatter, vibrate and basically work in harmony to murder your ears yet you cant quit put your finger on what it is. Your back hurts as the high spring/shockrates, solid motor mounts, low profile tires with no flex, thick swaybar, and hard leather seat have started to take a toll an hour into your drive. You wash the car, park it in the garage and dont drive it for a month BUT every time you see it you think "she looks pretty". Well gentlemen it took me a while to call out my S2K for what it was. A pretentious build. And that was solely my fault for being so naive and not thinking harder about actually enjoying my car.
Now that i've gone through all the BS i want to address these issues for the noobs and remind anyone thinking of selling their s2k that there is still hope. There are ways to have your cake and eat it too! S2K is an amazing car and taking it to the next level should be done in a smart way to enhance the driving experience not butcher it like a riced out honda civic. You just have to be honest with yourself, not put the s2k on a pedestal and simply be VERY careful and realistic about the mods that you want to add. Having said all this be very wary of added noise and vehicle harshness. Noise and harshness can add up fast. Noise and harshness will sneak up on you to the point you no longer want to drive! Very scary stuff. But just wanted to get the word out no one really addresses how important it is to keep noise and harshness at bay. You've been warned
07-03-2018, 12:39 AM
#2
this just shows how important it is to know beforehand what the main use of your S2K will be and to do major research into every single item on your tentative build list before taking the plunge. There's nothing worse than regret in this game especially after 1000s have been spent. Careful planning is crucial. Not going over the top is also crucial for long term enjoyment. Finding out where that relative "top" is, is also important. I think it comes down to knowing well what Honda designed the S2000 for before deciding what more you want out of it, power, handling, bit of both, etc. You gotta know what YOU ultimately want before beginning the modding process which is one of the most fun and rewarding things us enthusiasts can do especially with a car as enthusiastically awesome and capable as the S2000.
There's no substitute for quality either. Always get the best quality parts your wallet allows. No name brands and cheapies are a recipe for disaster and regret later on...maybe even early on...depends.
There's no substitute for quality either. Always get the best quality parts your wallet allows. No name brands and cheapies are a recipe for disaster and regret later on...maybe even early on...depends.
07-03-2018, 06:18 PM
#3
I have own my highly modded turbo s2000 for over 10 years now and i still love it.
The problem is 2 fold i think
1st
i with a high hp highly modded turbo s2000 the car is generally is not very reliable. You have to love working on cars or you eventually will hate it. I personally work on my card all the time. at least 2-5 nights a month. But i generally love it and i like wrenching. If you actually pay someone to work on your highly modded turbo s2000 you will not have it very long. You also need a second car. When your high power turbo s2000 breaks down and needs to be worked on and you have no other ride you will hate your s2000. When my car brakes down i always work on it right away way. But when i'm waiting for parts to come in i can drive my other cars.
2nd
People think they want a race car when in fact they actually want to enjoy driving their car on the street 99% of the time. So people install mods that decrease the drivability of their car and increases the noise, vibration and harness. Doing this will make you hate you car really fast unless its a track only car. For example people think you need a loud 3 inch exhaust to make power. This is not true. You need full 3 inch exhaust with no cat and straight through non chambered mufflers to make power but it does not need to be loud. The key is to have a large muffler and/or multiple mufflers. I have a full 3 inch exhaust with no cats with two vibrant ultra quiet 3 inch resonators and a large hks carbon ti muffler and the car is very quiet. My puddy mod stage 3 diff with 3.9 diff is just as quiet as stock and it makes all the gears longer thus increasing gas millage and thus lowering freeways cruzing rpm and actually lower noise and vibration. My id 1300cc injectors cannot be heard and drive like stock. But i did have 1700cc and 2200cc injectors and those do drive like crap and suck for a street car especially when running pump 91/93 octane. My walbro 450 fuel pump is as quiet as stock. Only the walbro 255 pump is loud but not many people run that pump any more. All motor mounts that are not stock pretty much suck and will make you hate your car. If you have a stiff single disc puck style clutch you will hate your car as the drivability sucks. I have a sos carbon twin disc and this clutch is amazing. Its quiet and has a soft pedal and drive as good as stock.
You just need to make sure you have the right parts to not hurt the street drivability of the car.
The problem is 2 fold i think
1st
i with a high hp highly modded turbo s2000 the car is generally is not very reliable. You have to love working on cars or you eventually will hate it. I personally work on my card all the time. at least 2-5 nights a month. But i generally love it and i like wrenching. If you actually pay someone to work on your highly modded turbo s2000 you will not have it very long. You also need a second car. When your high power turbo s2000 breaks down and needs to be worked on and you have no other ride you will hate your s2000. When my car brakes down i always work on it right away way. But when i'm waiting for parts to come in i can drive my other cars.
2nd
People think they want a race car when in fact they actually want to enjoy driving their car on the street 99% of the time. So people install mods that decrease the drivability of their car and increases the noise, vibration and harness. Doing this will make you hate you car really fast unless its a track only car. For example people think you need a loud 3 inch exhaust to make power. This is not true. You need full 3 inch exhaust with no cat and straight through non chambered mufflers to make power but it does not need to be loud. The key is to have a large muffler and/or multiple mufflers. I have a full 3 inch exhaust with no cats with two vibrant ultra quiet 3 inch resonators and a large hks carbon ti muffler and the car is very quiet. My puddy mod stage 3 diff with 3.9 diff is just as quiet as stock and it makes all the gears longer thus increasing gas millage and thus lowering freeways cruzing rpm and actually lower noise and vibration. My id 1300cc injectors cannot be heard and drive like stock. But i did have 1700cc and 2200cc injectors and those do drive like crap and suck for a street car especially when running pump 91/93 octane. My walbro 450 fuel pump is as quiet as stock. Only the walbro 255 pump is loud but not many people run that pump any more. All motor mounts that are not stock pretty much suck and will make you hate your car. If you have a stiff single disc puck style clutch you will hate your car as the drivability sucks. I have a sos carbon twin disc and this clutch is amazing. Its quiet and has a soft pedal and drive as good as stock.
You just need to make sure you have the right parts to not hurt the street drivability of the car.
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R00567 (07-17-2018)
07-04-2018, 12:31 AM
#4
Registered User
Wow this is very true. Riceball you have brought to attention very valid points.
ID1300's, OEM mounts and Puddmod DIff, SOS Twin-Disc, all keep the noise levels down and will keep you happy.
I will definitely be changing my Clutchmaster Twin Disc to the SOS Carbon Twin and my hard engine mounts back to OEM.
The only noise which you can not escape is the sound of R compound Tyres.
ID1300's, OEM mounts and Puddmod DIff, SOS Twin-Disc, all keep the noise levels down and will keep you happy.
I will definitely be changing my Clutchmaster Twin Disc to the SOS Carbon Twin and my hard engine mounts back to OEM.
The only noise which you can not escape is the sound of R compound Tyres.
07-04-2018, 01:49 AM
#5
Wow this is very true. Riceball you have brought to attention very valid points.
ID1300's, OEM mounts and Puddmod DIff, SOS Twin-Disc, all keep the noise levels down and will keep you happy.
I will definitely be changing my Clutchmaster Twin Disc to the SOS Carbon Twin and my hard engine mounts back to OEM.
The only noise which you can not escape is the sound of R compound Tyres.
ID1300's, OEM mounts and Puddmod DIff, SOS Twin-Disc, all keep the noise levels down and will keep you happy.
I will definitely be changing my Clutchmaster Twin Disc to the SOS Carbon Twin and my hard engine mounts back to OEM.
The only noise which you can not escape is the sound of R compound Tyres.
07-04-2018, 05:40 AM
#6
Most owners think its no big deal too turbo the car, and think everything will be like it was when it was stock. Well this is untrue, it takes more eyes on, maintenance, and knowing your car. Once your 500+hp its not longer a "normal oem street car" and takes alot more attention.
More power is more stress on everything, and stuff will break, which comes to second reason, most dont realize after FI and you start making real power, its gonna take MORE Money to upgrade eveyrhing else, Drivetrain, most likley youll need valvetrain, head studs, your gonna blow Diffs, Transmissions, and list keeps going. Also guys think they can just keep beating on a FI car like a NA 200hp car with no consequences, also not true. Boost = Heat = more stress. So most get tired of the "money pit"
I always tell customers that ask me about FI, if you just want a nice little kick over stock power with minimum maintenance just go SOS Novi Kit, If you want real power, turbo, but expect more money, and the car is gonna need a'lot more attention.
For me, my car rarely is "down" unexpected. Only time its down is when I bring it down for upgrades. But this is because I know what WILL fail, and I upgrade before it fails.
I also am constantly under the hood checking over the whole car, and goes on jacks every 2 weeks or so to check drivetrain/bolts etc.
Its not longer a "Daily Driver" at 700+ lol
Its no longer a drive and park it kinda car.
OH Another reason owners sell after FI..... Wifes realize its a money pit and makes you sell it. LOL
More power is more stress on everything, and stuff will break, which comes to second reason, most dont realize after FI and you start making real power, its gonna take MORE Money to upgrade eveyrhing else, Drivetrain, most likley youll need valvetrain, head studs, your gonna blow Diffs, Transmissions, and list keeps going. Also guys think they can just keep beating on a FI car like a NA 200hp car with no consequences, also not true. Boost = Heat = more stress. So most get tired of the "money pit"
I always tell customers that ask me about FI, if you just want a nice little kick over stock power with minimum maintenance just go SOS Novi Kit, If you want real power, turbo, but expect more money, and the car is gonna need a'lot more attention.
For me, my car rarely is "down" unexpected. Only time its down is when I bring it down for upgrades. But this is because I know what WILL fail, and I upgrade before it fails.
I also am constantly under the hood checking over the whole car, and goes on jacks every 2 weeks or so to check drivetrain/bolts etc.
Its not longer a "Daily Driver" at 700+ lol
Its no longer a drive and park it kinda car.
OH Another reason owners sell after FI..... Wifes realize its a money pit and makes you sell it. LOL
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R00567 (07-17-2018)
07-04-2018, 07:08 AM
#7
Everyone makes great points on this thread. Especially the don't cheap out on parts. You think your saving a few bucks here and there but honestly, whats a few hundred bucks when you have already dropped close to $10k into a quality build. I have the PTuning kit on my current car and still think its one of the best turbo kits out there. Everything was engineered to fit properly etc. Yes it has a few negatives like most kits. One is the inherent vibration of the motor mounts. I have yet to cut the mounts like Rainhtr suggests but I've heard this helps a lot. Honestly even now the vibration from the mount is not bad once moving. The turbo coolant lines are upgraded from version 2 but even then riceball777 suggested evo style hard lines and then add the turbo coolant lines...hopefully no more coolant line leaks! I wanted to make sure this car was as OEM like as possible. Heat management is another IMHO critical area most builds do not focus on, probably because its not a sexy topic. I think that is just short sighted thinking. I made sure both the turbo hot side and the manifold was Inconel wrapped to control heat inside the engine bay. There are other things I had rainhtr help me with like a quick disconnect on the aem fuel rail to drain fuel from e85 to 93 octane in the winter. This was before the option of flexfuel which I may do later on with flashpro. He also installed a switch to the walbro 450 inside the trunk so I can manually start the pump and drain the fuel without starting the engine which is very convenient. I run E85 exclusively in the summer because its plentiful and the car just runs better with it.
I don't mind wrenching somewhat but I would rather start the car and drive it. I enjoy the car for what it is. At this point the car is very reliable. I can toss the keys to the wife and let her take it to work with little fear of a break down. The car is not a daily, although you could daily mine without a problem.
The other comment about power is also true. Most people love the added power and want to use it all the time so they beat on it like an NA S2000, and then shit breaks. I love the power but I drive it like a stock civic 98% of the time. I don't feel the need to bang gears, redline to 8500 rpm all the time. Sure, once in awhile is ok but I limit it to a brief highway pull and settle in. If someone wants a race I find a 3/4 gear pull and partial 5th gear is more than enough to keep up or usually pull them pretty bad. I think if you treat the car with respect it will last awhile. I love the fact that the car is a beast at a moments notice. Sometimes just having that ability in the back of your mind makes the car very satisfying to drive. I don't need to prove it at every opportunity. Maybe it's just old age kicking in lol.
The other comments about the SOS twin disc being a good clutch is also a good option if your making north of 650whp. However, I have found you can take a lot of opinions about clutch drivability with a grain of salt. Some say a puck is no big deal and drives like stock. I agree with riceball777 that is not correct. Puck clutches are hard on the drivetrain, and trying to slip a puck is almost impossible. Every stop light you are at full attention trying not to stall the car and the buzz is bad. I have heard the SOS twin can be slipped but I am sure its not like OEM but a good compromise. The only clutch I have had that drives like stock with a stiffer pedal is the ACT oem friction disc setup. I had this setup but it would not hold the power I was making. It did on my previous build, but not this one. Did I have a weaker plate? Maybe, not sure. I decided to roll the dice on the SOS Sport 400 hybrid clutch. This is not as good as ACT for drivability but its not bad either. It does buzz a little...but only a little. Coming out of first gear is not as forgiving as the ACT but you get used to it, and after a few hundred miles the clutch settles down and even the wife can drive the car. The good news is that this clutch will hold more than 600whp all day long unlike the ACT which will eventually slip. The clutch is also a fraction of the cost of the SOS twin disc.
I don't mind wrenching somewhat but I would rather start the car and drive it. I enjoy the car for what it is. At this point the car is very reliable. I can toss the keys to the wife and let her take it to work with little fear of a break down. The car is not a daily, although you could daily mine without a problem.
The other comment about power is also true. Most people love the added power and want to use it all the time so they beat on it like an NA S2000, and then shit breaks. I love the power but I drive it like a stock civic 98% of the time. I don't feel the need to bang gears, redline to 8500 rpm all the time. Sure, once in awhile is ok but I limit it to a brief highway pull and settle in. If someone wants a race I find a 3/4 gear pull and partial 5th gear is more than enough to keep up or usually pull them pretty bad. I think if you treat the car with respect it will last awhile. I love the fact that the car is a beast at a moments notice. Sometimes just having that ability in the back of your mind makes the car very satisfying to drive. I don't need to prove it at every opportunity. Maybe it's just old age kicking in lol.
The other comments about the SOS twin disc being a good clutch is also a good option if your making north of 650whp. However, I have found you can take a lot of opinions about clutch drivability with a grain of salt. Some say a puck is no big deal and drives like stock. I agree with riceball777 that is not correct. Puck clutches are hard on the drivetrain, and trying to slip a puck is almost impossible. Every stop light you are at full attention trying not to stall the car and the buzz is bad. I have heard the SOS twin can be slipped but I am sure its not like OEM but a good compromise. The only clutch I have had that drives like stock with a stiffer pedal is the ACT oem friction disc setup. I had this setup but it would not hold the power I was making. It did on my previous build, but not this one. Did I have a weaker plate? Maybe, not sure. I decided to roll the dice on the SOS Sport 400 hybrid clutch. This is not as good as ACT for drivability but its not bad either. It does buzz a little...but only a little. Coming out of first gear is not as forgiving as the ACT but you get used to it, and after a few hundred miles the clutch settles down and even the wife can drive the car. The good news is that this clutch will hold more than 600whp all day long unlike the ACT which will eventually slip. The clutch is also a fraction of the cost of the SOS twin disc.
Last edited by s2000442; 07-04-2018 at 07:27 AM.
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R00567 (07-17-2018)
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s2000442 (07-04-2018)
07-04-2018, 02:10 PM
#9
This is a great post and hits the nail on the head.
I started doing trackdays in my NA car and before i knew it i was fitting every mod i could to make it more track focused than road car. I fitted a supercharger two years ago and gradually i started to drive the car less and started getting bored of it. I then made a list of all the things that annoyed me on the car
- Harsh suspension
- vented breather fumes
- Rear diff whine (4.56)
- rattles and road noise
- few flat spots in the map
Gradually i have been working through this list and im enjoying driving the car much more than i have done for the past 18 months or so. I think its easy enough to supercharger or turbocharge the car but its difficult to retain the OEM feel or drive ability. That definitely takes alot of time and effort to get.
I started doing trackdays in my NA car and before i knew it i was fitting every mod i could to make it more track focused than road car. I fitted a supercharger two years ago and gradually i started to drive the car less and started getting bored of it. I then made a list of all the things that annoyed me on the car
- Harsh suspension
- vented breather fumes
- Rear diff whine (4.56)
- rattles and road noise
- few flat spots in the map
Gradually i have been working through this list and im enjoying driving the car much more than i have done for the past 18 months or so. I think its easy enough to supercharger or turbocharge the car but its difficult to retain the OEM feel or drive ability. That definitely takes alot of time and effort to get.
07-07-2018, 06:12 PM
#10
Hehe. Cause shit breaks lol and it gets old spending money to fix it. I've owned mine for 13 years and will never sell it. But unlike riceball when mine breaks it sits for a bit. Life tends to get in the way.