Ballade Sports S2000 Roll Hoop Harness Bar
11-04-2015, 06:55 PM
#11
Community Organizer
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1446693083' post='23795431
Pertaining to your late addition asking about side protection, no, this would be no more dangerous in a side impact than someone in a car with a roll bar and harnesses, but you shouldn't BE in a car, on the street, wearing a harness and with a roll bar. The harness would not allow you to move laterally, making you more susceptible to serious injury. On the street, you use the OEM safety equipment to keep you safe. On track for HPDE and TT, you use a roll bar and harnesses/hans. W2W, you have a cage with door bars.
The only reason I brought it up was to see if there was any compelling reason why a person that met particular criteria couldn't use something like this safely. And so far the only reason that has been given is Ricky Flowers doesn't think the roll hoops could support the load of two shoulder belts in an impact. Having seen multiple times that Ricky Flowers is often not correct in his assumptions, I await further theory or evidence.
I believe the OEM safety equipment is safe enough to run in HPDE, but once you're routinely pushing the limits of your car, like in TT, you probably ought to upgrade to a real roll bar, not these mickey mouse roll hoops. That's an entirely different discussion, though.
11-04-2015, 08:31 PM
#12
It is proven to work one way, and that is with the OEM safety equipment. It is not proven to work in the way in which Ballade is suggesting it will. That alone is enough to not risk it. You have one head, one neck, one spine. You can be the crash dummy if you like, but I would never add something as sketchy and obviously compromised and claim it to be a legitimate safety device. Might as well get an eBay roll bar, because metal is strong and it looks like a hard dog, or a cusco.
I believe the OEM safety equipment is safe enough to run in HPDE, but once you're routinely pushing the limits of your car, like in TT, you probably ought to upgrade to a real roll bar, not these mickey mouse roll hoops. That's an entirely different discussion, though.
I believe the OEM safety equipment is safe enough to run in HPDE, but once you're routinely pushing the limits of your car, like in TT, you probably ought to upgrade to a real roll bar, not these mickey mouse roll hoops. That's an entirely different discussion, though.
You (and I and everyone) are assuming something it is or isn't safe based purely on it's design. To me a bar welded between a roll hoop that was designed and tested to support the load of a seat belt and roll over sounds as safe as a shoulder harness mounting point (for a short person that sits well below the hoop with helmet) as some mickey mouse untested bolt-in roll bar from a company that makes roll bars for 5 different cars and can't even be bothered to do some load testing.
But I guess I would also gladly drive and race wheel to wheel in old and incredibly unsafe race cars that make a stock S2000 look like a tank.
11-04-2015, 08:46 PM
#13
Community Organizer
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1446695722' post='23795456
It is proven to work one way, and that is with the OEM safety equipment. It is not proven to work in the way in which Ballade is suggesting it will. That alone is enough to not risk it. You have one head, one neck, one spine. You can be the crash dummy if you like, but I would never add something as sketchy and obviously compromised and claim it to be a legitimate safety device. Might as well get an eBay roll bar, because metal is strong and it looks like a hard dog, or a cusco.
I believe the OEM safety equipment is safe enough to run in HPDE, but once you're routinely pushing the limits of your car, like in TT, you probably ought to upgrade to a real roll bar, not these mickey mouse roll hoops. That's an entirely different discussion, though.
I believe the OEM safety equipment is safe enough to run in HPDE, but once you're routinely pushing the limits of your car, like in TT, you probably ought to upgrade to a real roll bar, not these mickey mouse roll hoops. That's an entirely different discussion, though.
You (and I and everyone) are assuming something it is or isn't safe based purely on it's design. To me a bar welded between a roll hoop that was designed and tested to support the load of a seat belt and roll over sounds as safe as a shoulder harness mounting point (for a short person that sits well below the hoop with helmet) as some mickey mouse untested bolt-in roll bar from a company that makes roll bars for 5 different cars and can't even be bothered to do some load testing.
But I guess I would also gladly drive and race wheel to wheel in old and incredibly unsafe race cars that make a stock S2000 look like a tank.
I simply don't understand why you'd compromise your safety with this shit. If you want to run harnesses on track, fine, but do it with a roll bar and a harness bar, not some stopgap bullshit that is, let's be honest, designed for the show car crowd.
12-10-2015, 11:33 AM
#14
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Added to the original post:
"We are excited to introduce our new interpretation of the OEM roll hoops with the added ability to utilize a 4-6 point harness while utilizing Honda's tried and true safety. The harness mounting points meet within specified shoulder harness angle parameters, while retaining the factory 3 point OEM seat belt for street use along with keeping all factory interior intact. We highly recommend the usage of a HANS or other head and neck restraints when using a non factory 4-6 point harness for your safety. "
Please take into consideration. In a street car, the factory 3-point seat belt along with a functioning airbag is always recommended. However for drivers looking to add a harness to prevent submarining under braking or further safety during track use, we can now offer that solution. Please do your due diligence of researching and preparing how to run harnesses and other safety equipment properly. When using the harnesses with our harness bar, or any roll bar at that, we can not stress how important a HANS/HNRS along with a halo full containment seat can be towards your safety.
"We are excited to introduce our new interpretation of the OEM roll hoops with the added ability to utilize a 4-6 point harness while utilizing Honda's tried and true safety. The harness mounting points meet within specified shoulder harness angle parameters, while retaining the factory 3 point OEM seat belt for street use along with keeping all factory interior intact. We highly recommend the usage of a HANS or other head and neck restraints when using a non factory 4-6 point harness for your safety. "
Please take into consideration. In a street car, the factory 3-point seat belt along with a functioning airbag is always recommended. However for drivers looking to add a harness to prevent submarining under braking or further safety during track use, we can now offer that solution. Please do your due diligence of researching and preparing how to run harnesses and other safety equipment properly. When using the harnesses with our harness bar, or any roll bar at that, we can not stress how important a HANS/HNRS along with a halo full containment seat can be towards your safety.
12-10-2015, 11:47 AM
#15
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Pertaining to your late addition asking about side protection, no, this would be no more dangerous in a side impact than someone in a car with a roll bar and harnesses, but you shouldn't BE in a car, on the street, wearing a harness and with a roll bar. The harness would not allow you to move laterally, making you more susceptible to serious injury. On the street, you use the OEM safety equipment to keep you safe. On track for HPDE and TT, you use a roll bar and harnesses/hans. W2W, you have a cage with door bars.
By no means are we recommending the use of a harness on a street. As stated above what we are offering is a solution to those looking to add a harness for whichever application they choose, may it be show, HPDE, etc WHILE maintaining the factory stock 3-point seat belt. To install our roll hoop, it is not necessary by any means to remove neither the seat belt nor the factory air bag which is one point we can agree on in terms of street use safety. To further answer your question regarding which organization would allow this, many HPDE organizers allow the OEM roll hoops, along with stock safety, which again we are not taking away from. For those looking to do W2W, NASA, SCCA, sanctioning bodies that require specific safety regulations (cage, seat, HANS, fire suppressant, nomex, etc) the driver should be able to do their own diligence and prepare the car accordingly to the application they wish.
12-10-2015, 04:35 PM
#16
I think most ppl are at risk submarine-ing because they run an ignorant racing seat on the street with the factory 3 pnt. At least with this they can run a 6 pnt harness with their ignorant racing seat and not end up a bag of bones in the pedal box. Front end collision is more common than roll overs. The typical roll bar is considered too far for a lot of S owners because of all the modifications to the plastics and cutting the wheel wells. This is no worse than any harness bar offered for any/all gt cars out there.
12-11-2015, 11:13 AM
#17
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
I think most ppl are at risk submarine-ing because they run an ignorant racing seat on the street with the factory 3 pnt. At least with this they can run a 6 pnt harness with their ignorant racing seat and not end up a bag of bones in the pedal box. Front end collision is more common than roll overs. The typical roll bar is considered too far for a lot of S owners because of all the modifications to the plastics and cutting the wheel wells. This is no worse than any harness bar offered for any/all gt cars out there.
One problem we encounter is that many S2000 owners desire to install bucket seats along with a harness, however that option is only available if all safety components are properly done at once (key word properly). Which includes and is not limited to: seat, harness, wheel and roll bar, in which most cases require removal of stock interior along with necessitating a aftermarket bulk head bar in order to retain the factory seat belts as well. Our product allows for a harness while keeping the factory 3 point seat belt all in one. Our goal towards introducing the roll hoop harness bar was a solution to fill that gap for our fellow S2000 owners.
