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Dyno Results - Stock vs Bolt On vs Tune (Karcepts)

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Dyno Results - Stock vs Bolt On vs Tune (Karcepts)

 
Old 03-10-2017, 04:24 PM
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Default Dyno Results - Stock vs Bolt On vs Tune (Karcepts)

I had chance to dyno stock trim vs bolt vs tune for my build thread and results are rather VERY interesting so I decide to make a new thread regarding the dyno.

Details about the dyno:
-2004 AP2 59k on the clock.
-Compression tested less than 1500 miles ago, around ~230psi all across.
-Greddy E-manage w Karcepts STR Tune.
-Dyno was done on two different days.
-They are 1 day apart.
-Used same gas station for fill up, same pump, almost same amount gas in the tank at the dyno.
-ECU was reset before the run.
-Total of 8 runs were performed
-2 Baseline (stock), 2 stock+EMU, 2 mods, 2 mods + tune

Mods are as follows
-PW JDM Intake
-PLM Header
-Berk 70mm High Flow Cat
-EVS (evasive) 70-SSP (70mm single)
These are all of the popular mods that claims pretty big numbers.

Index:
Run #2 Baseline
Run #4 Stock + Karcepts EMU
Run #6 Mods
Run #8 Mods + Karcepts EMU

Here is the graph of all 4 runs laid on top of each other.
Name:  Dyno%20-%20All%20Runs.jpeg
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2 Blue lines are Stock vs Mods.
There are minimal gains with all of the mods.
Does not make any power until about 6300 RPM range and even then it's minimal.
I was rather very surprised by this result because all of the products claims X number of power gain wo need of any tuning.
It was definitely not the case as you can see.

Here is the graph of the Stock vs Karcepts tune.
Name:  Dyno%20-%20OEM%20vs%20Karcepts.jpeg
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Blue line is the baseline RUN #2
Red line is the stock + EMU RUN #4
Here you can see pretty big power drop @ around 4500 RPM and picks back up @5500 or so.
Also where the power lose happens, it seems to run real rich.
Tune does not seem to be optimal with a stock car

This time it's baseline vs mods + EMU.
Name:  Dyno%20-%20Base%20vs%20STR.jpeg
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Blue line is the baseline RUN #2
Red line is the mods + EMU RUN #8
Here you can see the tune makes power EVERYWHERE.
+/- 15HP/20TQ gain on the lower/mid RPM range.

According to the results, it's pretty safe to say that the bolt ons itself does not lead to much of power gain, if at all.
And if you have bolt-ons, at least on S2000, you have to actually have a tune to optimize them.
In my case, combination of two was the only thing that actually had a healthy gain.

Here is a video link of a dyno run
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:00 PM
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Good info. This proves the obvious, for me. I think the gains would be higher for bolt-ons+tuning with different hard parts setup. The difference in power between stock tuned vs bolt-on+tune isn't as much as I would have hoped for. I'm curious to know how much I'm making after bolt-ons+Gernby tune.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:40 PM
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Most of the gains on this motor come from 3 simple things. Optimizing the fuel tune no matter what, replacing the cat with a TP, and lowering vtec. Those 3 things give you the most bang for buck out of anything else. From there if you have more money to spend and want to eek out every last hp, you should move to a larger TB and port match that to intake manifold, as this is a stock choke point. cat back and headers meh, take your pick, its a good way to blow your wad quick and not see much if anything depending on your choice.

The emanage obviously wasn't tuned optimally for the baseline run that saw the huge dip in afr. But should be noted, that with the stock cat still in place, lowering vtec will lose power bellow 5300rpm, so if you had a lower vtec program from the emange with still stock cat in place, that's what the dip was about. Didn't help that you left the fuel tune alone to run rich there either, but its the cats fault.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:05 PM
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Interesting results.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:56 PM
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This is super interesting, especially for my planned STR autox mods..... Thanks for sharing!
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:11 AM
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MODs, can I get this thread moved to "S2000 Modifications and Parts" section of the forum, please?

Thank you!
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mugen_is_best View Post
Good info. This proves the obvious, for me. I think the gains would be higher for bolt-ons+tuning with different hard parts setup. The difference in power between stock tuned vs bolt-on+tune isn't as much as I would have hoped for. I'm curious to know how much I'm making after bolt-ons+Gernby tune.
how do I get a Gernby tune? I can't find a way to contact him.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyS2K View Post
how do I get a Gernby tune? I can't find a way to contact him.
He has been inactive on the forum, but has not stopped tuning cars
S2KI Honda S2000 Forums - View Profile: Gernby
Click the link I provided above ^^
Then click the "Social Profiles" tab
Then click "Send a message to via email to Gernby"
That will go right to his personal email, and you can inquire about a tune there, hes the best and worth a wait
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:23 AM
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Reminder: Gernby will only tune '06 and later cars. DBW and FlashPro. All done by data capture and email. Took 3 weekends to do mine.

My car showed a max horsepower of 221 at the wheels on a Mustang dyno (which everyone says is a conservative dyno). No "before" power number, the place was over an hour away. FIPK intake, 63mm Berk high flow cat and Tanabe Medalion Touring dual exhaust. VTEC is 3600 rpm with this tune. Butt dyno also indicates much more mid range power and WOT rpms climb alarmingly fast in the lower gears. So quickly I installed the Modifry red line alarm. Rings like a fire alarm in the lower gears. Ringggggggg!

-- Chuck

Last edited by Chuck S; 03-30-2017 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 04-05-2017, 08:58 AM
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Gotta tune, we don't have MAF sensors that can compensate for things that affect air flow, or fuel. Because our cars have MAP sensors, the computer relies on pre-programmed maps for various engine conditions, if you start changing things(bolt-ons) then the way the engine breathes changes, but the maps stay the same. When one tunes, they are essentially tweaking the engine maps to suit the new characteristics of the engine.

If we had combination MAF and MAP sensors tuning would be much easier, the ECM would compensate for any small changes in A/F ratio etc. You would only need to tweak fuel tables when you upgrade injectors, and play with ignition timing advance to control knock. With our cars, we have to tune everything just bolting on an intake and test pipe.
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