Ricky_Flowers_

It just seems like, to me, they're overthinking the shit out of this.
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Ummm....one method uses custom length rods....another method uses a custom crankshaft, this method uses a deck plate, longer timing change, but all the other moving parts are OEM. Seems relatively simple as an idea.
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How is boring out the stock block, custom sleeves, using a different crank, machining a custom deck plate, machining custom dowels, custom head studs, and modifying a crank to fit in this block in any way simple? All to achieve what, 280whp? This is potentially thousands of dollars in machining and labor alone just for the bottom end for a completely unproven engine to make comparable power to a built K24. All for what, to use the F head? So that it "drops into" an S2000? What?!

It seems like Ballade already found the answer to their question, which is build a K24 with off the shelf parts and drop it in. I admire their willingness to think outside the box, but it seems like they're engineering around the problem (more N/A power) as opposed to just finding a solution.

I promise I'm not trying to attack these guys, it's just.... someone help me understand how the pros of this far outweigh the cons of building a K24.

MB

K Swap isnt for everyone. In my case I run Toda ITBs and don't want to muck around with them (air box is a tight fit on mine) the exhaust, potential issues with adapter to the sequential box, etc etc. It's quite a bit of hassle and nice to have an F alternative.

V6 Donut

I think the answer is J swap, but any ways....... I hope everyone the best. Its just money right?

Ricky_Flowers_

Well, we'll know if this works because we'll see it on instagram and on this site. If we just stop seeing it, we'll know it's been shelved. Time will tell I guess.

JUSTINTHECOASTIE

I feel your pain, I considered the K-swap as well, however, didn't want to deal with figuring out how to configure my SOS kit to work with it...

Mrsideways

The anwser to all things is LS swap. Simple as that.

MB

Nooooooo!

BalladeSports

This is a very good question. The complex nature of R&D for this new engine is really our own challenge and for us to determine what is worth doing. With our resources we feel this is not outside of our comfort zone and we enjoy the open discussion, along with sharing information of the design work.

Yes, we have made advances with our K24 ivtec swap into the S2000. Both F series and K series engines have their pros and cons. The use of ivtec and 2.4L displacement is definitely what makes a K24 so desirable. But when you build a K24 engine there are a lot of things to convert that the F series engine already has or are better.

For example, the oil pump. K24 standard oil pump is not adequate so often people change to a K20 oil pump. This is still not as good as an F20 oil pump. Which the company Drag Cartel also have a retrofit kit to use an F20c oil pump into a K series engine block. This is particularly important because K series engine in a transverse position actually have worse oil starvation issues on track than the F20/22C. Since all of us S2000 owners are initially spoiled with how durable the F series engine setup is we really don't notice that other Honda engines need enhancements to come up to par with the F20/22C.

K24 engines don't have a stock oil cooler. A F series has this standard and so does the K20 type S/R. So that should be added as well. A big feature to the K24 engine is the i-vtec system but is also a weakness. The timing chain is more prone to skipping teeth, especially with the use of large camshafts. This is because the timing chain laps over the intake and exhaust cam gears. K series TCTs are not like F series TCTs. An F series TCT can never retract itself once extended due to the ingenious design of the worm gear and piston. The K TCT uses a piston with scribed teeth on it with a locking mechanism to keep it from pushing back. Often times that mechanism breaks off and then the TCT is left with no tension on the chain, thus allowing timing to jump. That is why there are multiple companies who make upgraded versions of the K series TCT.

The F20/22C engine rarely ever skips timing in our experience. Honda has ensured this durability from the use of center drive gear. The F series timing chain runs on two gears. The crank and the timing chain gear/idler gear. K series timing chains run on three gears. The crank, Intake and Exhaust gear. The F series is a better design for durability in my opinion. The down side to the F series design is the ivtec application. It is difficult to have both due to the different syles in engine design.

So to keep a tally the F series is superior to the K series because of the follow:

- Oil starvation, better oil pump
- Timing skipping, 2 chain gears versus 3.
- TCT design, will not retract once extended.
- Cylinder Head Flow rate. CFM on a F series is like an aftermarket port & polished cylinder head for K series & B series.

K series engines are superior to F series engines for these reasons:

- Horsepower availability. Stock to stock they make less than an S2000 engine, but have higher potential for upgrades
- Higher displacement availability. Of course this is not taking into account stroker kits, deck plates etc etc. Just OEM vs OEM.
- ivtec, the electronically controlled adjusting VTC is good for up to 30whp mid range on the proper application

Now going back to why we are attempting this Long Rod F series engine, it is merely to adapt some of the positive attributes of the K series engine and fit them into the F series engine with the concept of Honda providing our S2000 2.4 liter displacement. Regardless if this motor becomes a sell-able product this is something we would like to see through to the end for our own personal S2000s. If this works out well for our own cars, then we can talk about producing them for others. The first car being outfitted with this engine is a 30-40,000 mile a year daily driver and is also supercharged. We feel if the engine can live for a good long duration with a SC kit on it, then we might have something to brag about.

Mrsideways

Something of note, the latest gen honda motors have done away with Vtec and only use VTC. The K24 in the new Civic is no longer a 3 lobe camshaft.

Beard

I completely understand what you are trying to do with this stroker kit and appreciate the research, my comment is directed toward testing a long rod 2.2 just to see how the powerband is effected. In order to do that, you would need to use custom rods with the 9mm deck plate but would be able to use the stock crank and pistons.