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looking for advice on an engine build

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looking for advice on an engine build

 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:10 AM
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So last year I did the oil jet bolt upgrade and ran into a bit of a problem (which can be seen here https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...102067/page12/ ). Every oil change I have to drop the pan and tighten the oil jet bolt about a 1/4 turn because it keeps backing out. I've sourced a used F22 engine block that needs to be sleeved so I have the option of going one of 2 ways (I know there are other ways but these are the 2 I'm considering)


Here is my dilemma.
I've been looking into doing an F24 build. but I'm not convinced that the reliability is there for a street car. I rev the hell out of the car and enjoy every minute of it and this is becoming less and less of an option but still an option

I'm also considering just swapping my F20 crank and rods over to the F22 block and using some 12.5-1 compression pistons.
For a little on my build now the car made 222hp and 144 lbft or torque. 2001 Honda S2000 BASE - 222whp/144tq - AEM EMS - Dyno Graph

So the question is what do I do F24 stroker or high compression F20?
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:17 AM
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It's been a while since I've been on here, but I thought I'd pop in and see what was happening...

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that a stroker can't be reliable?
The first Spoon S2000 used a variant of the F20 with F22 crank and rods to build a high compression 2.2 stroker. There's been a lot of them done over the years. The 2.4 has more stress at high revs, but quality components, build quality, and good tuning can go pretty far.

If you're hard on the car there's not a lot that can combat the wear and tear, but if you're asking about actual stresses then the 2.2 will see less stress on components than the 2.4 at high revs. However, there are lots of guys running their 2.4's to 9k without issue.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jun11 View Post
It's been a while since I've been on here, but I thought I'd pop in and see what was happening...

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that a stroker can't be reliable?
The first Spoon S2000 used a variant of the F20 with F22 crank and rods to build a high compression 2.2 stroker. There's been a lot of them done over the years. The 2.4 has more stress at high revs, but quality components, build quality, and good tuning can go pretty far.

If you're hard on the car there's not a lot that can combat the wear and tear, but if you're asking about actual stresses then the 2.2 will see less stress on components than the 2.4 at high revs. However, there are lots of guys running their 2.4's to 9k without issue.

Well I've been reading so much about piston speeds and rod angles with a stroked F block. I am literally pulling my hair out over this.

Cost is one of my biggest dilemmas. Also so keep in mind I don't have the F22 crank. Only my F20 crank and I also have a K24 crank out of a 2010 CRV. I know not all K24 cranks can be used. Assuming the one I have can be used I'm looking at a cost of about 1500 for rods and Pistons.

If if I can't use the K24 crank I have I'm looking at 2100

and if I just use the internals from my F20 and just buy new pistons I'm looking at about 600.

These costs dont include the cost of having the block sleeved, finished bored and decked. Add another 4-500 for that from my loca l machine shop. I already paid for the sleeves at a cost of 332.00. 137.00 for ARP head bolts. Paid 200 for the block and another 180.00 for a head gasket and bottom end seals. So I'm at a total of about 850 in so far.

So 850 plus 500 in machine work. 1350
plus either 600 for just pistons 1950
or 1500 for pistons and rods with K24 Crank that's 2850
or 2100 for complete stroker kit. That's 3450.

So so what would you do?
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:48 AM
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Wait until Ballade finishes developing their tall deck long rod motor. That is what I would do. Perhaps then you could get the F24 and Rev it like you want.

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-na...-2-4l-1161441/

Or build it now. There are rods available to mate the K24 crank to OEM F2xC pistons to save sleeving costs. You will just have to lower the redline to keep the motor reliable.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:13 AM
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The Ballade Long rod build I think will be pretty awesome. But I'm sure that cost will be quite a bit higher as well. I don't want this to get out of hand cost wise. Which is why I'm having a hard time deciding what to do.

If I didn't have a crack in the oil jet hole I wouldn't even be doing this. But here I am.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:31 AM
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If all you care about is high revs and not power, go with the 2.0 AP1 crank build.
If you want power 2.4 The 2.4 will last but if you want to rev it to 9k all day dont expect it to. Even if its Ballades long rod K24s dont rev to 9k without running into some issues.

FYI, I run 2.4 in my track car. No issues yet and rev to 7,600-7,800 on track. Tuned to 8,200 RPM and it sees that RPM on occasion.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ajval79 View Post
The Ballade Long rod build I think will be pretty awesome. But I'm sure that cost will be quite a bit higher as well. I don't want this to get out of hand cost wise. Which is why I'm having a hard time deciding what to do.

If I didn't have a crack in the oil jet hole I wouldn't even be doing this. But here I am.

JB Weld...you have nothing to lose at this point lol
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by f20kills View Post
If all you care about is high revs and not power, go with the 2.0 AP1 crank build.
If you want power 2.4 The 2.4 will last but if you want to rev it to 9k all day dont expect it to. Even if its Ballades long rod K24s dont rev to 9k without running into some issues.

FYI, I run 2.4 in my track car. No issues yet and rev to 7,600-7,800 on track. Tuned to 8,200 RPM and it sees that RPM on occasion.
How long have you been running your 2.4 kit? And what kind of power are you making?

And as far as the JB weld. I am going to pull the pan again and use a 2 part epoxy on the bolt to get me through next summer.

So I guess I'm answering my own question. Build it and build it right. The revs are fun but it's not the most important thing I would like more torque so again I've answered my own question.

Thanks for everyone's input. Sometimes you just need to discuss things with others to go in the right direction.
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ajval79 View Post
How long have you been running your 2.4 kit? And what kind of power are you making?

And as far as the JB weld. I am going to pull the pan again and use a 2 part epoxy on the bolt to get me through next summer.

So I guess I'm answering my own question. Build it and build it right. The revs are fun but it's not the most important thing I would like more torque so again I've answered my own question.

Thanks for everyone's input. Sometimes you just need to discuss things with others to go in the right direction.
If it's torque, then 2.4 is what you want. I think most of us would sacrifice RPM's for torque.

But I definitely here you... I loved hearing my AP1 at high rev's. I think it was just the feeling of a well engineered engine that I liked the most. Remember, the F20/F22 series motors won awards for their design every year they were in production.
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:38 PM
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I'm pretty sure all k24 cranks will work but they all need to be modified to work. None of them just drop in. You would just need to buy the rods and you could use your ap1 pistons. Using the ap1 pistons bumps the compression to 13.1:1. With a nice camshaft you could make some decent power...

Last edited by K20iVTEC; 12-20-2016 at 03:40 PM.
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