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Low power 2.4 build

 
Old 08-14-2017, 09:18 AM
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Thats about what your gonna make. Think of it like this. a F24 stock bore is only 2.35L. Thats only 150ishcc larger then a F22. If an F22 Makes 220whp the F24 all things being the same will only make the difference in displacement more. Thats 6.8%. So 220hp x 1.068 = 235hp. So your right in line. When you factor in the RPM loss it's nearly a wash. (hence why ballade is doing the long rod setup to try to get some more RPM back) You've gotta spend some money on cams and intake manifold if you wanna make more. When I originally did my K24 swap I did a stock bore 12:1 K24 in the S2000 with a stock throttle body and stock intake manifold and small cams. I made a whopping 237whp. It was a HUGE disappointment. Same bottom end different cams, different intake manifold and different throttle body the car made 267whp. I've learned a lot and several motors and different mods later I've finally cranked it up over 300. But it still makes like 290 at 7500. The Key is to Bore em. My car found a ton of power boring it out to a 89.5mm. I've also found bumping compression doesnt help as much as you would think. Stick with your 12.5:1

Last edited by Mrsideways; 08-14-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Upgrading the intake manifold helped me unlock a nice gain on my 2.4L

See:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-na.../#post24192807
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-na.../#post24218897

But I have other supporting mods (custom 3.5" intake, urge "stroker" exhaust header, urge exhaust w/ dual T1R).
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by snitm View Post
Upgrading the intake manifold helped me unlock a nice gain on my 2.4L

See:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-na.../#post24192807
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-na.../#post24218897

But I have other supporting mods (custom 3.5" intake, urge "stroker" exhaust header, urge exhaust w/ dual T1R).
Ever get Dynojet numnbers? My experience with Dynapak's is they read all over the place. Seen huge swings with our Mini on a couple different Dynapaks from Lower then a Dynojet to 20% more then a dynojet.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrsideways View Post
Ever get Dynojet numnbers? My experience with Dynapak's is they read all over the place. Seen huge swings with our Mini on a couple different Dynapaks from Lower then a Dynojet to 20% more then a dynojet.
I have with previous setups, but not with the latest. I have also been dyno'd on a mustang dyno. Yes, both are lower. But the before vs after that I showed from Evans is still very useful to show percentage gains just from the IM upgrade.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by snitm View Post
I have with previous setups, but not with the latest. I have also been dyno'd on a mustang dyno. Yes, both are lower. But the before vs after that I showed from Evans is still very useful to show percentage gains just from the IM upgrade.
yep, Great dyno for tuning, bad dyno for telling how much power you actually make.

I think the big myth that needs to be dispelled on the F24 is people think they can increase stroke by 7% and pick up 60hp. It simply doesn't work like that. The stroke increase gives you the ability to pull more air but you've got a crap load of work to do on top of that to actually show more then a 7% power gain. Horse power Gains N/A out of a motor already making over 100hp per liter are not easy.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrsideways View Post
yep, Great dyno for tuning, bad dyno for telling how much power you actually make.

I think the big myth that needs to be dispelled on the F24 is people think they can increase stroke by 7% and pick up 60hp. It simply doesn't work like that. The stroke increase gives you the ability to pull more air but you've got a crap load of work to do on top of that to actually show more then a 7% power gain. Horse power Gains N/A out of a motor already making over 100hp per liter are not easy.
i think I was expecting 250 with light supporting mods and I would have been ok with that. It just is presenting itself a bit more challenging to get to that estimate needing to max out more items than I originally planned. It definitely is a big change going from being supercharged to staying NA. Someone pm'd me if I considered doing itbs and it is a mixed bag for me as I have had problems with the driviabilty during wild temperature swings, the car ended up driving like crap. I will post dyno charts tomorrow as I am out on a work trip until then. Thanks everyone for the input provided.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrsideways View Post
yep, Great dyno for tuning, bad dyno for telling how much power you actually make.

I think the big myth that needs to be dispelled on the F24 is people think they can increase stroke by 7% and pick up 60hp. It simply doesn't work like that. The stroke increase gives you the ability to pull more air but you've got a crap load of work to do on top of that to actually show more then a 7% power gain. Horse power Gains N/A out of a motor already making over 100hp per liter are not easy.
Search Evans Tuning Dyno Graph Database

E.g. this All-motor with AEM infinity search:
Evans Tuning Dyno Graph Database

My 2002 2.4L is the 2 results in the middle. Before the K-series skunk2 ultra race IM I was 258HP/192TQ, after I'm 273HP/201TQ.
The 2001 2.4L is 243HP/178TQ (this one is interesting as it shows my header and exhaust mods to be more effective).
The 2004 AP2 has light-medium mods and gets 221HP/161TQ

Basically, I think you're going overboard questioning the accuracy of Jeff Evans' dynapak. The 2004 AP2 establishes it gets what it should given the mods.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:40 PM
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dynos are tuning tools the only "power" you can observe is a percentage change when comparing before and after. this change should be equal on all dynos. the "power" number itself is meaningless.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by s2000ellier View Post
dynos are tuning tools the only "power" you can observe is a percentage change when comparing before and after. this change should be equal on all dynos. the "power" number itself is meaningless.
Its meaningless, well unless you are building to reach a target.

A good tune can be done on the street, no dyno needed. But seeing numbers is part of calculating the potency of the car. I may be in the minority, but like to know how much power my car makes as it stands alone and compared to mods or other types of cars. Sticking to the same dyno if you can goes a long way towards consistency, but thats not possible for everyone.
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
Its meaningless, well unless you are building to reach a target.

A good tune can be done on the street, no dyno needed. But seeing numbers is part of calculating the potency of the car. I may be in the minority, but like to know how much power my car makes as it stands alone and compared to mods or other types of cars. Sticking to the same dyno if you can goes a long way towards consistency, but thats not possible for everyone.
Drag strip trap speed after you calculate for temp and altitude and humidity is the most accurate. The Good news is the drag racers Calculated that stuff out pretty well so it's pretty close to accurate. My avg hp I turned in to Nasa for a dyno classing was 298 peak with a 274 avg with 8k rev limit. My drag strip pass was 106 mph trap at 2930lbs with a density altitude of IIRC like 2200 feet. So when calculating the DA my trap would have been a 108.9mph. So the Calculators all gave me a mid to low 270's avg based on 108.9 mph and 2930lbs. So I'd say that Dynojet was fairly accurate.

Last edited by Mrsideways; 08-15-2017 at 07:16 AM.
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