S2000 Naturally Aspirated Forum Discussions about N/A motor projects, builds and technology.

n/a power

 
Old 09-22-2008, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 03AP1,Sep 21 2008, 08:55 PM
^^ ~300 on race gas. I want to see some dynos of S's pushing into the mid 350+ HP range on pump gas. A long-time member of this forum told me I would be dreaming to see those types of numbers...
350 to the wheels is the max and you will need to spend 20k on the motor alone to get there. Would be a race motor only. Can be done though. 300 is a more realistic goal, but there are hurdles to get there as well.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:03 AM
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311hp is the highest N/A reading I have ever seen and that was in the ASM Tuskuba track car. 300 hp on a street car is going to be unreliable. Hell 260hp Is hard as hell to break N/A. Sorry but thats how it goes. Im tring to put 240 to the wheels.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:20 AM
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I've seen a few NA guys with AP1 motors using AP2 tranny and 4.57 final drive.

How is the 4.57 compared to 4.77? the higher the number, the longer you will be in that gear correct?
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:23 AM
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the problem with the S is that it comes perfectly calibrated from the factory... without going FI you won't see too much gains, no matter what plug-n-play upgrades you throw at it. In my PERSONAL opinion, you're best served with the emanage ultimate, intake and exhaust as well as some nice header... I also have a testpipe and love it, even though it gave me a CEL...
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Sep 22 2008, 12:55 AM
But yeah, gears are the biggest difference, a test pipe is nice, 70mm single exhaust for power, a good intake (your AEM is fine as long as you don't hydrolock your car), and a Greddy E-Manage Ultimate should put you around 225-230 on an AP1, 240-245 on an AP2. After that, get a throttle body, port your intake, then go w/ some head work & cam gears (cams if you can find some good ones), finally a stroker kit, and for about $14k you're making 300whp on race gas, 275-280 on pump gas. There's definately more room available, but you really need a top tuner like Twiztid or Hytech to build that.

And as far as ITBs go, you're not really making that much more peak horsepower, maybe 10 more up top, the gains are in the midrange.
Put nicely.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by funat9000rpm,Sep 22 2008, 12:23 PM
the problem with the S is that it comes perfectly calibrated from the factory... without going FI you won't see too much gains, no matter what plug-n-play upgrades you throw at it. In my PERSONAL opinion, you're best served with the emanage ultimate, intake and exhaust as well as some nice header... I also have a testpipe and love it, even though it gave me a CEL...
Currently, I have T1R 63mm Exhaust, Berk TP, Berk Headers, Aem V2 CAI, ACT PP, and ACT flywheel (HTG clutch package), Mugen HT w/softtop delete. I'm running stock ECU and my butt dyno tells me that I've got quicker accel. No dyno sheet to prove it tho! I love my TP too! No CEL here.. Which one are you using? I'm going to wait until Hondata drops its price on KPRO. It sounds like a winner for my purposes.
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by vincewchan,Sep 22 2008, 09:20 AM
I've seen a few NA guys with AP1 motors using AP2 tranny and 4.57 final drive.

How is the 4.57 compared to 4.77? the higher the number, the longer you will be in that gear correct?
no the opposite the higher the number the more often you have to shift gears. the OEM 4.10 you can stay in 2nd till 62 mph i think, in 4.77 you have to go to third because it tops out at i think 58.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:09 PM
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ITS HERE
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Sep 21 2008, 09:55 PM
Why even post that? He's not asking for your opinion on how great FI setups are.

That being said, it is cheaper to go FI, but there are other problems that people don't want to talk about, most of which you don't have w/ NA setups.
i did not state an opinion for how great FI setups are. he wants to run with FI cars but do it NA. i suggested gears, a testpipe, and a vafc and adding much more than that would only be marginal gains (intakes/headers/exhausts). i suggested that you should only take NA so far. going past the basic i/h/e, tp, gears, piggyback is going to get expensive real fast while the car's performance increases only slightly.

as far as reliability of NA versus FI unless you are stroking, adding extremely high comp pistons, or adding ITBs you aren't going to come that close to running with FI cars. and if you did decide to run with those mods it'd be a lot more labor and complicated than simply bolting on a supercharger kit. also getting to 300 whp is going to cost double to do it NA rather than FI.

from browsing this site i've seen a higher percentage of stroked kits failing than supercharger kits failing. sure with FI little things go here and there but its a bunch of minors rather than a major but that's assuming you're tuned right also.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:40 PM
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First of all, you don't know what you're talking about ... there are even videos out there of completely stock AP1s w/ only a set of 4.77 gears that are neck and neck from a roll with a supercharged AP1 ... the gears make a huge difference, and you can't really run 4.77s on an FI car w/o spinning the tires a ton.

Secondly, your definition of "slightly" must be totally skewed. There are dynos where just an AEM EMS and a set of ITBs have added 40whp to the midrange ... how is that "slightly"?

The two setups are completely different though, in that FI cars are mostly dyno queens that can go fast in a straight line, but not much else. A well-built NA S2k can go fast in a straight line or on a track, it depends on what you're talking about. I think you're talking about drag racing, in which case you're missing like 80% of racing, especially the kind the S2000 was designed for.

The only stroker kits that I've seen fail were either due to (1) admittedly bad installs OR (2) something wrong with the engine before it was stroked out. It's overall more reliable b/c (1) unlike a supercharger, there is not a constant drag on the crank, (2) you don't have to have a stroked engine re-tuned when the weather changes, (3) you're not forcing a ton of extra air through an engine that's not built to take boost, (4) the NA engine will run cooler than the FI engine (which is the cause of a host of engine problems), and (5) you don't have all that power coming on at once, putting stress on other parts (clutch, driveshaft, rear end, etc.).

Sorry for the rant ... I'm outie
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