S2000 Naturally Aspirated Forum Discussions about N/A motor projects, builds and technology.

n/a power

 
Old 09-22-2008, 07:12 PM
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Can we keep these threads to a minimum ? I hate to be the dick to say it but search search search.

Most bolt ons offer little to no gains. I'd say check carrera4's thread he's got a pretty good NA build going another thing that just got going is the dyno thread you can get ideas there. Hytech just released their kit it includes itb's, header, exhaust, cams, valvetrain, you gain a good amount so give them a call. Inline pro they offer a stroker and I believe on race gas hit 300whp NA.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Sep 22 2008, 04:40 PM
First of all, you don't know what you're talking about...
from my point of view stroking or adding ITBs is not reliable due to variation of the qualifications of installers/tuners. sure you may have access to great people (is mase in jacksonville?) but everybody across the country does not have the same access to resources that you do. your perspective may mislead people because you take for granted your resource's competency that others may assume all mechanics/tuners have . in theory stroking/ITBs are great but it will come down to your installer/tuner though.

from a financial aspect forced induction is indeed cheaper. all-motor and FI may excel at different situations of course. i support FI (supercharging rather than turbo) because the installation is simple regardless of strain on the crank, added pressure, or increased heat. i was only speaking if one was the type to go all out performancewise. from my perspective NA is great up to a certain point but at that point it just makes a little more sense to switch over to FI then to continue the NA path.

i apologize if somehow remotely anything i said insulted the NA community. it's odd however that everything i said was basically said in a round about way, exactly what i voiced (cost and reliability). can't imagine how I rubbed you the wrong way...
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by s2k aok,Sep 23 2008, 02:23 PM
from my point of view stroking or adding ITBs is not reliable due to variation of the qualifications of installers/tuners. sure you may have access to great people (is mase in jacksonville?) but everybody across the country does not have the same access to resources that you do. your perspective may mislead people because you take for granted your resource's competency that others may assume all mechanics/tuners have . in theory stroking/ITBs are great but it will come down to your installer/tuner though.

from a financial aspect forced induction is indeed cheaper. all-motor and FI may excel at different situations of course. i support FI (supercharging rather than turbo) because the installation is simple regardless of strain on the crank, added pressure, or increased heat. i was only speaking if one was the type to go all out performancewise. from my perspective NA is great up to a certain point but at that point it just makes a little more sense to switch over to FI then to continue the NA path.

i apologize if somehow remotely anything i said insulted the NA community. it's odd however that everything i said was basically said in a round about way, exactly what i voiced (cost and reliability). can't imagine how I rubbed you the wrong way...
Sorry for saying you don't know what you were talking about, that was the wrong way to express what I was saying ....

As far as that goes, I was talking about the gears, already made my point on that ....

I agree that FI is more beneficial in terms of money for power, and there are a lot of shops that can do a basic install fairly easily, but I have seen some really messed-up FI installs, too. Plus w/ turbo kits there is a good amount of fabrication needed. Even with a good tune on a turbo car though, you have to get it re-tuned when the weather gets colder/hotter, so it's not a direct tune-and-go situation. However, most of the reliability issues w/ FI setups don't come from the turbo setup or superchager, they come from the stress that FI puts on the rest of the car (i.e. blown clutch, blown rear end, thrown rod, etc.). Even w/ a high-powered NA car, the power comes on in a more manageable way, unless you dump the clutch at 5-6k rpms, so it's easier for the rest of the car to handle.

I agree that it is easier to get power with FI though. People will hit a ceiling, but I think that the point of this thread is how the OP can keep up w/ an FI car, still keeping his car NA.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:54 PM
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If you want to stick to N/A, and make any real power, then there's something you should know right off the bat. It's gonna cost you. FI is the best bang for the buck, no doubt about it, and no one here with half a working brain will argue with you. That being said, nothing can beat power under the curve like an N/A build.
Either route you go, you also need to know that a standalone is the only way you're going to accomplish any real results. You need to be able to fine tune your build, and keep an eye on things. We all have our own preference as to which actual ECU to use, do some research, and see what tuning shops around you actually have some experience with. The ECU alone, with a good tune, will give you noticeable results. From that point, you gotta look at the long term goal.

Strokers are the big money NA power-adder, but require a competent engine builder and patience. You'll get alot more torque and good gains everywhere, but throttle response will not be as snappy, its simple math. The increased rotational inertia of the longer throw, plus the greater rod/cylinder angle will increase the rotational effort needed. You wont notice much though, the bump in torque will keep you plenty preoccupied to notice the extra fractions of a second each gear takes

ITB's are a croud pleaser, and an aural pleasure, but without a good tuner, you better hope you paid attention in fluid mechanics and thermodynamics. Getting them to run isnt hard. Getting them to run like an OEM setup takes time, patience, and even a little math. A good bump in midrange torque, coupled with unparalleled transient response, makes going this route a no brainer for the die hard N/A build. Your engine is nothing more than an air pump. The easier it can breath, the more efficient it will be at putting that power to good use.

Headers and exhaust are complimentary items to an N/A build, not key components. Anything you can do to make the expellant gases leave the system with minimal pressure drops will improve the engine's ability to expel all the exhaust fumes from the cylinder, thus increasing the mass of the incoming air charge.

Gearing and transmission ratios should be chosen based on the track or driving conditions you plan on encountering. If you spend alot of time highway cruising, you're going to really hate those 4.56 or 4.77 gears you thought were gonna be the shizzit.

Bolt on stuff is nothing more than re-designed (not re-engineered), based of sound principles (most of the time), mass produced marketing items that larger companies use to gather the cash flow for their real engineering endeavors. You can buy cold air kits and battery tie downs and strut bars and whatever else you want to throw at it, but at the end of the day, its not really going to make any real difference.

Weight is key, so is heat. Manage those, and you've got half the battle won. I could go on like this for days. All I can tell you is read, research, compare, shop around, and see what others have tried. Good luck!
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:23 PM
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great advise right there
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:42 PM
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[QUOTE=wildcardtrd,Sep 23 2008, 07:54 PM] If you want to stick to N/A, and make any real power, then there's something you should know right off the bat.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Sep 23 2008, 11:42 PM
For the most part, I agree ... I guess I'm in a disagreeable mood over NA Plus, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit just to get the NA discussion going/continuing ... I definately have great respect for your car and the great build you've been doing with it over the years.

I take issue with the claim that exhausts don't make any real difference ... especially when right afterwards, you talk about how great weight reduction is. The stock exhaust is, what, 55lbs? Titanium single exhausts weigh between 9-12 pounds, and the higher-flowing 70mm singes gain anywhere from 10-15whp, mostly in the top end. The general rule in tuning is that 10 pounds = 1 hp in terms of acceleration (not even getting into the benefits from braking, handling, even gas mileage, but you know anyway), so dropping 45 pounds plus gaining 10-15whp, in my book, would be considered a real difference.

Also, that is on a completely stock engine. The engine is an air pump, and the more air you're pumping in it, the faster you want the air to go out, so these aftermarked exhausts are even more important the more air you're pushing through, because the stock setup is somewhat of a bottleneck.

On the other hand, Twiztid has that S2000 up north that was making around 300whp with a Supersprint exhaust, so you definately don't need an aftermarket exhaust ... doesn't mean it doesn't have any real benefit.
I didn't say an exhaust wont make a difference...I said it's a complimentary item, not a key component. What exhaust setup you choose will be based on the more primary design focus of your engine, it's displacement, target powerband, and airflow characteristics. Putting the wrong exhaust on the car could possibly do as much harm as it could good.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 57udl3y,Sep 22 2008, 05:43 PM
no the opposite the higher the number the more often you have to shift gears. the OEM 4.10 you can stay in 2nd till 62 mph i think, in 4.77 you have to go to third because it tops out at i think 58.
So, Which gear will you recomend for AutoX


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Old 09-26-2008, 09:13 PM
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Just added this sort of topic to the rules. No foul to the OP, but I would to keep this thread from turning into a "what should I do to my s2000" forum.
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