naturally aspirated power?
03-20-2014, 11:56 AM
#41
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I love an all motor setup. Cant stand turbos people throwm on hondas ans stuff and brag about HP. I used to love pulling up to boosted cars in my trans am and just rape them with shear grunt of a real motor. I love this car and the purpose of my question was to see what is really possible with this microscopic 2L engine. I also love rpm and with this thing the higher the rpm the more power u generate due to lack of displacement. You can get 10'000 outta this thing fully built from what I understand and thats AMAZING its sick even. The other reason I asked was because I just wanted a rough estimate on cost because I have money and you boys have managed to answer all of my questions so thank you and happy v-tec in: )
03-20-2014, 07:39 PM
#42
03-20-2014, 08:15 PM
#43
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I'm not sure if everyone is referring to the S2000 being unreliable when boosted but I think you guys are mostly bias. It's time to stop repeating things we hear other people say or making comments to justify paying a fortune for 300 NA HP. NA motors are fun, I agree. But Turbo does NOT equal unreliability. I've owned over 10 boosted cars (1JZ, 2JZ, SR20, 13B, B/H seiris) and none of them was unreliable (I lied, my RX7). I just spent 3 years in Japan and I've seen first hand turbo motors get bounced off the rev limiter at the drift track all day and they hold up just fine for the entire 3 years I was there.
Lets not kid our selves here, a 300 hp S is fast on the track. But a boosted 450 HP S with the right size turbo will make it look silly with equal drivers.
Lets not kid our selves here, a 300 hp S is fast on the track. But a boosted 450 HP S with the right size turbo will make it look silly with equal drivers.
03-21-2014, 03:44 AM
#44
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Uwan
If you would of raced 20 min session with a turbo car you would of known what I was talking about
You run into sever heat problem with them on the track because of oil temp and egt temps I am not bias at all I speak from experience I can show you picture of the 3 turbo setup I used to own and they where all mega buck builds and all them have hade some sort of heat issues on a 20 session again talking from experience here
They can be made some what reliable but man if you think that the Urge all motor crates are expensive you better sit down before looking into a setup like this
You don't see guys melting stuff under the hood for noting on the s2000 and I didn't go and invent that either just go Google it and you will see so if you are melting stuff away like this you can imagine what the engine would have to go true on a 20 min session lol
If you would of raced 20 min session with a turbo car you would of known what I was talking about
You run into sever heat problem with them on the track because of oil temp and egt temps I am not bias at all I speak from experience I can show you picture of the 3 turbo setup I used to own and they where all mega buck builds and all them have hade some sort of heat issues on a 20 session again talking from experience here
They can be made some what reliable but man if you think that the Urge all motor crates are expensive you better sit down before looking into a setup like this
You don't see guys melting stuff under the hood for noting on the s2000 and I didn't go and invent that either just go Google it and you will see so if you are melting stuff away like this you can imagine what the engine would have to go true on a 20 min session lol
03-21-2014, 07:32 AM
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Uwan
If you would of raced 20 min session with a turbo car you would of known what I was talking about
You run into sever heat problem with them on the track because of oil temp and egt temps I am not bias at all I speak from experience I can show you picture of the 3 turbo setup I used to own and they where all mega buck builds and all them have hade some sort of heat issues on a 20 session again talking from experience here
They can be made some what reliable but man if you think that the Urge all motor crates are expensive you better sit down before looking into a setup like this
You don't see guys melting stuff under the hood for noting on the s2000 and I didn't go and invent that either just go Google it and you will see so if you are melting stuff away like this you can imagine what the engine would have to go true on a 20 min session lol
If you would of raced 20 min session with a turbo car you would of known what I was talking about
You run into sever heat problem with them on the track because of oil temp and egt temps I am not bias at all I speak from experience I can show you picture of the 3 turbo setup I used to own and they where all mega buck builds and all them have hade some sort of heat issues on a 20 session again talking from experience here
They can be made some what reliable but man if you think that the Urge all motor crates are expensive you better sit down before looking into a setup like this
You don't see guys melting stuff under the hood for noting on the s2000 and I didn't go and invent that either just go Google it and you will see so if you are melting stuff away like this you can imagine what the engine would have to go true on a 20 min session lol
03-21-2014, 08:33 AM
#46
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I get your point Uwan
They are turbo car that are reliable but more then often they are car designed like this from the factory block,piston,sleeves,water passages and heads and even the aero of the car have been build with only one purpose and that is to be mated to a turbo engine there is a lot of engineering going into them
Now as soon as you start pushing them farther then they where engineered for you still always run into the same end result and i can tell from experience that a proper build Turbo track setup cost a lot more then what you guys think
They are big buck setup and even if you trow all the money in the world at it if you don't have the knowledge and fabrication skills it is very hard to get them right and that is one of the reason that every one as misconception about turbo track setup because none is willing to pay what it cost to build a super reliable turbo setup like this and most of them do the switch anyway to make more power for cheaper
I have had a couple of buddy who did turbo setup on there s2000 and in the end most of them sold these car because they where always down and broken IMO these are not the ideal car to try and push 400-500whp you can barely put down 300-350 whp efficiently with them on R compound street tire without being all over the place
You do have good company that makes great turbo kit for these car look at the full race kit it is nice but no very user friendly wen it comes to heat management you see a lot of guys melting away stuff and catching plastic parts on fire with it so you got to start moving stuff around and even then you always have the risk to catch the rubber line with Heat and even tho it puts great numbers i would not call this reliable and a lot of the other kits are plagued with these problems
I also like to be able to put my car on the trailer fill it up with 94 and not having to run around for race gas i don't care what the turbo guys say you don't want to start racing a turbo setup on 20 min session on pump because removing timing and running rich +egt dont mix well together at all and kill these engine really fast
But like everything in life everything as a price anything can be done it just depends on how much money your willing to trow at it and how much time your willing to dedicate to the cause on my side i wanted the ultimate all motor setup that is drivable on the street and super reliable and i don't regret it one second spending all this time and money reaching my goals
They are turbo car that are reliable but more then often they are car designed like this from the factory block,piston,sleeves,water passages and heads and even the aero of the car have been build with only one purpose and that is to be mated to a turbo engine there is a lot of engineering going into them
Now as soon as you start pushing them farther then they where engineered for you still always run into the same end result and i can tell from experience that a proper build Turbo track setup cost a lot more then what you guys think
They are big buck setup and even if you trow all the money in the world at it if you don't have the knowledge and fabrication skills it is very hard to get them right and that is one of the reason that every one as misconception about turbo track setup because none is willing to pay what it cost to build a super reliable turbo setup like this and most of them do the switch anyway to make more power for cheaper
I have had a couple of buddy who did turbo setup on there s2000 and in the end most of them sold these car because they where always down and broken IMO these are not the ideal car to try and push 400-500whp you can barely put down 300-350 whp efficiently with them on R compound street tire without being all over the place
You do have good company that makes great turbo kit for these car look at the full race kit it is nice but no very user friendly wen it comes to heat management you see a lot of guys melting away stuff and catching plastic parts on fire with it so you got to start moving stuff around and even then you always have the risk to catch the rubber line with Heat and even tho it puts great numbers i would not call this reliable and a lot of the other kits are plagued with these problems
I also like to be able to put my car on the trailer fill it up with 94 and not having to run around for race gas i don't care what the turbo guys say you don't want to start racing a turbo setup on 20 min session on pump because removing timing and running rich +egt dont mix well together at all and kill these engine really fast
But like everything in life everything as a price anything can be done it just depends on how much money your willing to trow at it and how much time your willing to dedicate to the cause on my side i wanted the ultimate all motor setup that is drivable on the street and super reliable and i don't regret it one second spending all this time and money reaching my goals
03-21-2014, 10:33 AM
#47
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I get your point Uwan
They are turbo car that are reliable but more then often they are car designed like this from the factory block,piston,sleeves,water passages and heads and even the aero of the car have been build with only one purpose and that is to be mated to a turbo engine there is a lot of engineering going into them
Now as soon as you start pushing them farther then they where engineered for you still always run into the same end result and i can tell from experience that a proper build Turbo track setup cost a lot more then what you guys think
They are big buck setup and even if you trow all the money in the world at it if you don't have the knowledge and fabrication skills it is very hard to get them right and that is one of the reason that every one as misconception about turbo track setup because none is willing to pay what it cost to build a super reliable turbo setup like this and most of them do the switch anyway to make more power for cheaper
I have had a couple of buddy who did turbo setup on there s2000 and in the end most of them sold these car because they where always down and broken IMO these are not the ideal car to try and push 400-500whp you can barely put down 300-350 whp efficiently with them on R compound street tire without being all over the place
You do have good company that makes great turbo kit for these car look at the full race kit it is nice but no very user friendly wen it comes to heat management you see a lot of guys melting away stuff and catching plastic parts on fire with it so you got to start moving stuff around and even then you always have the risk to catch the rubber line with Heat and even tho it puts great numbers i would not call this reliable and a lot of the other kits are plagued with these problems
I also like to be able to put my car on the trailer fill it up with 94 and not having to run around for race gas i don't care what the turbo guys say you don't want to start racing a turbo setup on 20 min session on pump because removing timing and running rich +egt dont mix well together at all and kill these engine really fast
But like everything in life everything as a price anything can be done it just depends on how much money your willing to trow at it and how much time your willing to dedicate to the cause on my side i wanted the ultimate all motor setup that is drivable on the street and super reliable and i don't regret it one second spending all this time and money reaching my goals
They are turbo car that are reliable but more then often they are car designed like this from the factory block,piston,sleeves,water passages and heads and even the aero of the car have been build with only one purpose and that is to be mated to a turbo engine there is a lot of engineering going into them
Now as soon as you start pushing them farther then they where engineered for you still always run into the same end result and i can tell from experience that a proper build Turbo track setup cost a lot more then what you guys think
They are big buck setup and even if you trow all the money in the world at it if you don't have the knowledge and fabrication skills it is very hard to get them right and that is one of the reason that every one as misconception about turbo track setup because none is willing to pay what it cost to build a super reliable turbo setup like this and most of them do the switch anyway to make more power for cheaper
I have had a couple of buddy who did turbo setup on there s2000 and in the end most of them sold these car because they where always down and broken IMO these are not the ideal car to try and push 400-500whp you can barely put down 300-350 whp efficiently with them on R compound street tire without being all over the place
You do have good company that makes great turbo kit for these car look at the full race kit it is nice but no very user friendly wen it comes to heat management you see a lot of guys melting away stuff and catching plastic parts on fire with it so you got to start moving stuff around and even then you always have the risk to catch the rubber line with Heat and even tho it puts great numbers i would not call this reliable and a lot of the other kits are plagued with these problems
I also like to be able to put my car on the trailer fill it up with 94 and not having to run around for race gas i don't care what the turbo guys say you don't want to start racing a turbo setup on 20 min session on pump because removing timing and running rich +egt dont mix well together at all and kill these engine really fast
But like everything in life everything as a price anything can be done it just depends on how much money your willing to trow at it and how much time your willing to dedicate to the cause on my side i wanted the ultimate all motor setup that is drivable on the street and super reliable and i don't regret it one second spending all this time and money reaching my goals
Can't deny those facts lol. After all, I did sell my RX7 because I wanted to spend more time on the track driving this year and less time in the garage fixing stuff lol. All my friends think I down graded but I can finally have a toy I can beat on as much as I want and not be worried about it breaking all the damn time.
03-21-2014, 02:39 PM
#48
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I would like to give my opinion solely comprised of research, technical knowledge and experience, and real local estimates. The quote of wadzii I have attached below will be used as a reference considering wadzii's general build concept is the same I plan on using for my own build in the future. Please keep in mind when considering these prices usually labor is not calculated. I am fortunate enough to have the technical ability to perform this work myself at a professional level. This work could cost $2500-$5000 just in labor.
K24 crank (rods, rings, head gasket, head bolts, sealer, various required gaskets that I feel like replacing, bearings, ap2 retainers)
I'll probably use a lot of stock engine parts that many people would replace, valves, cams, springs etc.
Minor block work 200
Major head work 1200
I'll modify the oil pan for baffle
TB, some intake work, or complete manifold
full exhaust with TP (800)
EMS (haltech, aem) 1200, tune another 300 or more
I plan to net about 175wtq and 270whp or so would be nice. I think it's a conservative value.
K24 crank (rods, rings, head gasket, head bolts, sealer, various required gaskets that I feel like replacing, bearings, ap2 retainers)
I'll probably use a lot of stock engine parts that many people would replace, valves, cams, springs etc.
Minor block work 200
Major head work 1200
I'll modify the oil pan for baffle
TB, some intake work, or complete manifold
full exhaust with TP (800)
EMS (haltech, aem) 1200, tune another 300 or more
I plan to net about 175wtq and 270whp or so would be nice. I think it's a conservative value.
here's 300hp-- prices rough cause its easy to add
pistons - shelf wiseco pistons $550
rods - inline pro f24 rods with upgraded bolts - 800
crank - oem honda k24 - 350
crank modifications - 100
bearings - acl race - 150
gasket set - 200
RLZ CNC Cylinder head includes valve job, resurface and reassmeble 1500
Supertech valve springs/retainers 350
cams (right now bc2 soon svm 212) 650
intake manifold modified inhouse with q45 tb 1000
assembly 1000
block work (darton dry sleeves) 750
Thats 7400 give or take a little b/c of rough pricing. It'll make 300. our k24 packages are about the same price, they make 300 to the tires all day on pump gas. I assume everyone
pistons - shelf wiseco pistons $550
rods - inline pro f24 rods with upgraded bolts - 800
crank - oem honda k24 - 350
crank modifications - 100
bearings - acl race - 150
gasket set - 200
RLZ CNC Cylinder head includes valve job, resurface and reassmeble 1500
Supertech valve springs/retainers 350
cams (right now bc2 soon svm 212) 650
intake manifold modified inhouse with q45 tb 1000
assembly 1000
block work (darton dry sleeves) 750
Thats 7400 give or take a little b/c of rough pricing. It'll make 300. our k24 packages are about the same price, they make 300 to the tires all day on pump gas. I assume everyone
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