FlushS2000

First of all id like to thank everyone in advance for any input or help

I have a nfr 00 ap1 which is my daily w/ 60k- 16k on rebuilt 2nd cylinder, i do a lot of free way driving so where i want to go with this tune is possibly make more hp but what i really want is to save myself a couple $$$ on gas. From my understanding 00 & 01 run rich up top so this is one of my main concerns cruising on the freeway at 4200rpm on a daily basis. My current engine mods would:

Apexi GT spec exhaust (btw i really want better flow without the sound so id go with a hfc, anyone care to enlighten the size id go with please? guessing 63mm)
K&N fipk
Not much but shes a looker & has plenty of suspension work, I was also considering trading my ap1 wheels for a radiator before the tune just for the hell of it.
Im open to any recommendations anyone might have to something i should get before the tune cause once thats done i just might keep the car as it sits, shes sexy already anyway the more "cost effective" the better ha

As for the tuning ive read a lot about vafc and i like the pros but the con for me is that i hear the car learns that its been tuned and ends up reseting itself, im not down to continue tuning the car.I am a student in college and money is an issue but ive never had to think twice about spending my lunch money on some well intended parts. I am located in Socal IE so if anyone has any reputable tuners that are well priced please feel free to let me know.

As far as the tune anyone have an idea on what gains i may expect? MPG?

Thanks everyone!

Bryan-

jh4db536

I have an 05 f22 and based on the experiments I have been doing in the last few months it loves to run lean (more lean =more power and its highly sensitive in the neighborhood of 13 to 13.4afr at wot, .1 afr richer really hurts the power, I'm not trying to burn valves or pistons so I keep it 13.2 for now). I seen people who are running 13.5afr putting down some pretty good numbers. That might be aggressive for me.

I think its pretty hard to get mpg with tuning...I just did a little roadtrip this weekend and I got a personal best mileage of 26mpg and it might be able to squeeze maybe 1 more mpg with additional refinement. My cruise afr is pegged at 14.7 in closed loop/wideband feedback mode. I'm putting down a good amount more power than stock also.

I ran 15afr cruise vs 14.7afr and there's just not much (like 10extra miles a tank) difference so I run a safer 14.7 because 10miles isn't worth it

As far as tuning goes, it has made the most power for me. Tuning plus tp or hfc is the best bang for the buck imho. You can expect 15+ to the wheels in midrange by replacing the cat with something freer flowing.

I would suggest a aem ems used v1 or v2, tp/hfc and some etuning. The adventure will cost between 1k to 1.5k. I saw an fic with pnp harness fs in the marketplace, that might be a good compromise for the money as well.

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H22toF20

What's safe and not safe, is usually wrong on the forums. Discussing WOT A/F would be opening up a whole debate. I've actually read that that running a 12.5 or a 13.5 A/F will yield the same power, assuming that timing is adjusted to compensate for the difference in the burn rate. I personally target 13:1.

For cruising, if you have a catalytic converter of some kind, just target stoich(14.68 A/F). If not, go as lean as the injectors will allow you before the combustion "breaks up"; I'd target stoich for part throttle. I was running 16:1 with some old school DSM 450's.

jh4db536

Everything I said above was my personal experience with My mods and obviously tuning is not the same for everyone. I did not intend a generalization for op who has an f20 ap1

I have log data from my own car when playing with different afrs showing my car losing major power when afr drops just 0.1. It may even drop for different reasons ie a mere overcorrection of fuel from wideband feedback. Personally my main issue right now is iat compensation caused by the oem intake causing me to run rich and lose power according to the edyno (and I have difficulty getting consistent runs due to iat swings +-15 to 20celcius). Colder air richens it up too much while hotter air makes it leaner possibly pushing the afr past my target amount.

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FlushS2000

To be honest with you gentleman i might go with a shop OSR and leave all the fine tuning to them, im just giving them the proper tools to get the job done well. I recently got off the phone with them and he suggests me getting a neo afc, he says hes never heard of the tune changing on any s2000 hes tuned. any thoughts?

jh4db536

you can only lean out the stock ecu at in open loop mode with those piggybacks. During normal driving, those piggybacks are being overridden (if you even attempted to program it for something other than WOT) either instantly or in a short period of time by the ecu which pins it to ~14.7AFR (the only afr the stock o2 sensor can really see).

you Probably WILL make more power with a tuned VAFC/2/Neo, but only when flooring it. At pretty much all other times you will be running 'stock'. The topics of piggyback tuning with these units has been beaten to death. If youre lightly modded, this is fine; but don't expect more. Your mileage should not change unless you are heavy on the gas...the piggyback is pretty much not active unless youre at WOT.

for the cost of the apexi units, the AEM FIC might be a better choice since you can independently alter fuel and *ignition*. Also, it has a datalogger built in and you have option to add a wideband to it.

ans2k

AEM FIC is not good for N/A. the ignition can only be retarded and not advance. you want to advance timing on a N/A motor. and i have heard they are hard to tune with.

jh4db536

And you cant adjust timing at all with the vafc type controllers (the op will probably leave timing untouched or retard if needed). I'm under the impression that fic uses a watered down version of aem tuner, which isn't a bad thing. From the screenshots it looks like you assign breakpoints and fuel correction on a 2d table (that's essentially what you do on the vafcs screen). Logging would probably be very similar to the ems with less bells and whistles.

Neither are ideal and I suggested he go with the ems. At least the fic has datalogging functions and works with a wideband. Cost is comparable to the neo he wants but more for the money. Both are plug and play.

There's always a chance he may become boosted and the fic might potentially be more useful although still not ideal.

Oh and the fic might allow partial throttle tuning. Don't quote me but I believe it modifies the injectors pulse directly unlike the vafc so you can be tuning idle etc

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ans2k

i agree. neither are good choices. but he would benefit more with datalogging and he could self tune much easier.