Swap: K-Series --> S2000
05-23-2016, 06:45 AM
#1
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Swap: K-Series --> S2000
Hello guys,
Small intro...
As my previous F Series, high comp, 2.2 forged engine seized, i started thinking whether i should go ahead with building a similar engine or trying something different.
After looking at my options i realised i couldn't afford a new build from scratch so was looking for a plan b.
Then we thought of swapping into a K-Series K20A2, japanese engine.
My car is a track car and so far i have not been looking for maximum power but a more efficient power curve in mid range.
That said, the K series engine made sense to me.
I sold everything i had on my F-Series and went ahead and bought Innovative K-Series swap mounts, Ballade Morotsports engine/transmission plate, K-Tuned AC Eliminator kit, K-Miata manifold plate, made a custom header (J's Spec), custom air intake, i kept my oversized ported intake manifold from the F-series and finally an AEM Series 2 for the K-Series.
The engine is now in the car and it should be finished fairly soon i think.
I know that this might be a bit late for this post, but i would be interested to hear from people that have experience with this kind of swap.
Any drawbacks to this apart from the lack of max power?
Anyone with the swap and track use had any problems with oil starvation? Maybe because the engine is now sitting differently.
Any problems that you guys have encountered?
Any worse/better on track? I guess that daily driving will be smooth as the OEM engine.
If any of you guys can help out with giving any info, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time in advance,
Kostas.
---------------------------
Pictures added --> 12.08.2016
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...5-930021731-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...3-192142804-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...1-972990857-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...7-741104735-n/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...8-201360217-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...-1783981154-o/
Small intro...
As my previous F Series, high comp, 2.2 forged engine seized, i started thinking whether i should go ahead with building a similar engine or trying something different.
After looking at my options i realised i couldn't afford a new build from scratch so was looking for a plan b.
Then we thought of swapping into a K-Series K20A2, japanese engine.
My car is a track car and so far i have not been looking for maximum power but a more efficient power curve in mid range.
That said, the K series engine made sense to me.
I sold everything i had on my F-Series and went ahead and bought Innovative K-Series swap mounts, Ballade Morotsports engine/transmission plate, K-Tuned AC Eliminator kit, K-Miata manifold plate, made a custom header (J's Spec), custom air intake, i kept my oversized ported intake manifold from the F-series and finally an AEM Series 2 for the K-Series.
The engine is now in the car and it should be finished fairly soon i think.
I know that this might be a bit late for this post, but i would be interested to hear from people that have experience with this kind of swap.
Any drawbacks to this apart from the lack of max power?
Anyone with the swap and track use had any problems with oil starvation? Maybe because the engine is now sitting differently.
Any problems that you guys have encountered?
Any worse/better on track? I guess that daily driving will be smooth as the OEM engine.
If any of you guys can help out with giving any info, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time in advance,
Kostas.
---------------------------
Pictures added --> 12.08.2016
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...5-930021731-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...3-192142804-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...1-972990857-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...7-741104735-n/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...8-201360217-o/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...-1783981154-o/
05-23-2016, 08:59 AM
#2
Oil issues, you will have oil starve under braking. You need to block the oil from going up into the timing cover under braking. Tractuff use to make a block of plate for that for $25 or so. They don't offer it anymore.
Since I put mine together I've had several issues. 1st engine was cracked ( I can only assume from shipping) and at first start up it pumped oil and coolant mixed out the crack in the block. 2nd engine was in the car for a long time but never made any real power. It first had a huge dip at vtec cross over , I changed cams and intake manifold and solved that. I then took it to the track for the first time and experienced the oil light flashing under braking. Same day the o-ring for the oil filter adapter to the oil cooler failed and blew oil everywhere. I put the track tuff plate in and ditched the oil cooler then went to the track and it blew the injectors out of the head (stripped the bolts right out of the intake manifold). I fixed that and added a drysump and went back to the track and the #4 piston cracked an came apart. So now engine #3 just went in the car. I'm having to sell the dry sump setup to pay for engine #3. So if your interested in a sweet dry sump setup it's forsale. I do need to send the actual sump back to AT power for them to fix the damage from when it came apart. I've got it boxed up just haven't actually put it in the mail to them yet. It's been a Rocky Road since doing the K swap. The car has yet to pull it's self back on the trailer after going to the track. Every visit has been pushing it on the trailer.
Since I put mine together I've had several issues. 1st engine was cracked ( I can only assume from shipping) and at first start up it pumped oil and coolant mixed out the crack in the block. 2nd engine was in the car for a long time but never made any real power. It first had a huge dip at vtec cross over , I changed cams and intake manifold and solved that. I then took it to the track for the first time and experienced the oil light flashing under braking. Same day the o-ring for the oil filter adapter to the oil cooler failed and blew oil everywhere. I put the track tuff plate in and ditched the oil cooler then went to the track and it blew the injectors out of the head (stripped the bolts right out of the intake manifold). I fixed that and added a drysump and went back to the track and the #4 piston cracked an came apart. So now engine #3 just went in the car. I'm having to sell the dry sump setup to pay for engine #3. So if your interested in a sweet dry sump setup it's forsale. I do need to send the actual sump back to AT power for them to fix the damage from when it came apart. I've got it boxed up just haven't actually put it in the mail to them yet. It's been a Rocky Road since doing the K swap. The car has yet to pull it's self back on the trailer after going to the track. Every visit has been pushing it on the trailer.
05-23-2016, 12:27 PM
#3
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Wow, that sounds like a bitter story man!
The dry sump is a thought for the future as i am missing the budget for one now. But good luck selling that and funding your new engine!
Are the problems you are writing connected to each other?
The cracked engine was a matter of bad luck during the transportation.
The dip in the second engine was not oil related from what i understand. It was a bolt on - tune related problem.
Sounds like something was not working correct with the other parts.
When you say it made no power, how much was that?
The engine i have bought is already baffled. I hope that this will be enough to avoid the problems you are talking about under braking.
Although the speculation of oil moving to the front abruptly makes total sense.
That was one of my fears and you seem to be validating that.
Makes me think.
Hopefully someone else will chip in this topic, full of joy and positive comments on his K-Swap so i will feel a bit better
The dry sump is a thought for the future as i am missing the budget for one now. But good luck selling that and funding your new engine!
Are the problems you are writing connected to each other?
The cracked engine was a matter of bad luck during the transportation.
The dip in the second engine was not oil related from what i understand. It was a bolt on - tune related problem.
Sounds like something was not working correct with the other parts.
When you say it made no power, how much was that?
The engine i have bought is already baffled. I hope that this will be enough to avoid the problems you are talking about under braking.
Although the speculation of oil moving to the front abruptly makes total sense.
That was one of my fears and you seem to be validating that.
Makes me think.
Hopefully someone else will chip in this topic, full of joy and positive comments on his K-Swap so i will feel a bit better
05-23-2016, 12:52 PM
#4
Might be a bit late letting you know, but so far I am super excited with the results. J32a2 in my S2000. I also just finished my first track weekend with it. So much power everywhere.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/114...read-v6-s2000/
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/114...read-v6-s2000/
05-23-2016, 07:52 PM
#5
Hello guys,
Small intro...
As my previous F Series, high comp, 2.2 forged engine seized, i started thinking whether i should go ahead with building a similar engine or trying something different.
After looking at my options i realised i couldn't afford a new build from scratch so was looking for a plan b.
Then we thought of swapping into a K-Series K20A2, japanese engine.
My car is a track car and so far i have not been looking for maximum power but a more efficient power curve in mid range.
That said, the K series engine made sense to me.
I sold everything i had on my F-Series and went ahead and bought Innovative K-Series swap mounts, Ballade Morotsports engine/transmission plate, K-Tuned AC Eliminator kit, K-Miata manifold plate, made a custom header (J's Spec), custom air intake, i kept my oversized ported intake manifold from the F-series and finally an AEM Series 2 for the K-Series.
The engine is now in the car and it should be finished fairly soon i think.
I know that this might be a bit late for this post, but i would be interested to hear from people that have experience with this kind of swap.
Any drawbacks to this apart from the lack of max power?
Anyone with the swap and track use had any problems with oil starvation? Maybe because the engine is now sitting differently.
Any problems that you guys have encountered?
Any worse/better on track? I guess that daily driving will be smooth as the OEM engine.
If any of you guys can help out with giving any info, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time in advance,
Kostas.
Small intro...
As my previous F Series, high comp, 2.2 forged engine seized, i started thinking whether i should go ahead with building a similar engine or trying something different.
After looking at my options i realised i couldn't afford a new build from scratch so was looking for a plan b.
Then we thought of swapping into a K-Series K20A2, japanese engine.
My car is a track car and so far i have not been looking for maximum power but a more efficient power curve in mid range.
That said, the K series engine made sense to me.
I sold everything i had on my F-Series and went ahead and bought Innovative K-Series swap mounts, Ballade Morotsports engine/transmission plate, K-Tuned AC Eliminator kit, K-Miata manifold plate, made a custom header (J's Spec), custom air intake, i kept my oversized ported intake manifold from the F-series and finally an AEM Series 2 for the K-Series.
The engine is now in the car and it should be finished fairly soon i think.
I know that this might be a bit late for this post, but i would be interested to hear from people that have experience with this kind of swap.
Any drawbacks to this apart from the lack of max power?
Anyone with the swap and track use had any problems with oil starvation? Maybe because the engine is now sitting differently.
Any problems that you guys have encountered?
Any worse/better on track? I guess that daily driving will be smooth as the OEM engine.
If any of you guys can help out with giving any info, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time in advance,
Kostas.
I would look up HPT and buy their timing chain guard and I believe they make the timing chain cover baffle too. Buy a k20z3 (06-11 SI / RBC) upper chain guard, the early K20s have a small guard on top known to cause issues. They have timing chain tensioner issues much like the F-series, but it is more related to horribly designed cams. if you stick with OEM cams or a tried and true set of cams, you shouldn't have to worry about the Tensioner. There's a 90* bend inside of the oil pump that you can have machined for better flow (without cavitation) north of 8500 RPMs, or there is a S2000 oil pump retrofit kit out there.
Sorry, I have no input on the actual swap, just some tidbits for power and reliability.
Also, just a heads up, AEM can do some funky things with VTC. Most K guys don't venture from Hondata.
05-23-2016, 11:52 PM
#7
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Just to clarify, the k20a2 is the USDM 02-04 RSX engine. 'K20a' is the JDM engine, but you more so have to go by the part numbers, in just the K20s, there's: 'PRA', 'PRB', 'PRC', 'RBC', 'RRC', 'RSP'. Pretty much anything branded RRC is going to make the most power, that's the part number from the 240bhp/161tq FD2 Mugen RR. That being said, Honda also had multiple revisions of parts and mixed and matched parts. For instance, the fabled k20 ITR cams actually have 3 part numbers, PRC-001, PRC-002 and PRC-003. -001 was from the JDM ITR, -002 was used in Australian cars, -003 is what was used in the FD2 Mugen RR, and is also in the 05-06 RSX. The PRC-003 is the best OEM k20 cam. I would also look into a custom header, like Myers, SSR or Hytech. There is a lot of power to be gained from the K-series in the header design over an 'off-the-shelf' spec header. The intake manifold you cannot do much about.
I would look up HPT and buy their timing chain guard and I believe they make the timing chain cover baffle too. Buy a k20z3 (06-11 SI / RBC) upper chain guard, the early K20s have a small guard on top known to cause issues. They have timing chain tensioner issues much like the F-series, but it is more related to horribly designed cams. if you stick with OEM cams or a tried and true set of cams, you shouldn't have to worry about the Tensioner. There's a 90* bend inside of the oil pump that you can have machined for better flow (without cavitation) north of 8500 RPMs, or there is a S2000 oil pump retrofit kit out there.
Sorry, I have no input on the actual swap, just some tidbits for power and reliability.
Also, just a heads up, AEM can do some funky things with VTC. Most K guys don't venture from Hondata.
I would look up HPT and buy their timing chain guard and I believe they make the timing chain cover baffle too. Buy a k20z3 (06-11 SI / RBC) upper chain guard, the early K20s have a small guard on top known to cause issues. They have timing chain tensioner issues much like the F-series, but it is more related to horribly designed cams. if you stick with OEM cams or a tried and true set of cams, you shouldn't have to worry about the Tensioner. There's a 90* bend inside of the oil pump that you can have machined for better flow (without cavitation) north of 8500 RPMs, or there is a S2000 oil pump retrofit kit out there.
Sorry, I have no input on the actual swap, just some tidbits for power and reliability.
Also, just a heads up, AEM can do some funky things with VTC. Most K guys don't venture from Hondata.
Very useful information in your post man, thank you very much.
It might not be swap related but nevertheless a lot of information for future thought in case i want to make it a bit faster or more bulletproof.
I know that the engine already has some porting in it. It is actually the engine of my mechanic which i have been using only in his EG Civic swap Time Attack for the last few years.
It is a know quantity to me, with low milage in it and conditioned perfectly.
I will keep the AEM note in mind, although the Civic has been running with an outdated AEM Series 1 for a few years now without a problem.
Although the AEM is the more expensive option i went for it as i was under the impression this would be an easier fit on a pre-06 S2000 than the Hondata unit.
Thanks a lot for you time and effort in your post! Appreciate it!
SBIT = As soon as the damn car is going to be finished you will know!! I can't wait to get my hands on it and drive again!
iridedumped = Nice build you got there mate! Glad you can now enjoy driving it! Wouldn't be my preference but i am always happy for a fellow s2k owner that tries to be different.
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05-24-2016, 05:11 AM
#8
Originally Posted by ninetysixyenko' timestamp='1464061932' post='23974800
Just to clarify, the k20a2 is the USDM 02-04 RSX engine. 'K20a' is the JDM engine, but you more so have to go by the part numbers, in just the K20s, there's: 'PRA', 'PRB', 'PRC', 'RBC', 'RRC', 'RSP'. Pretty much anything branded RRC is going to make the most power, that's the part number from the 240bhp/161tq FD2 Mugen RR. That being said, Honda also had multiple revisions of parts and mixed and matched parts. For instance, the fabled k20 ITR cams actually have 3 part numbers, PRC-001, PRC-002 and PRC-003. -001 was from the JDM ITR, -002 was used in Australian cars, -003 is what was used in the FD2 Mugen RR, and is also in the 05-06 RSX. The PRC-003 is the best OEM k20 cam. I would also look into a custom header, like Myers, SSR or Hytech. There is a lot of power to be gained from the K-series in the header design over an 'off-the-shelf' spec header. The intake manifold you cannot do much about.
I would look up HPT and buy their timing chain guard and I believe they make the timing chain cover baffle too. Buy a k20z3 (06-11 SI / RBC) upper chain guard, the early K20s have a small guard on top known to cause issues. They have timing chain tensioner issues much like the F-series, but it is more related to horribly designed cams. if you stick with OEM cams or a tried and true set of cams, you shouldn't have to worry about the Tensioner. There's a 90* bend inside of the oil pump that you can have machined for better flow (without cavitation) north of 8500 RPMs, or there is a S2000 oil pump retrofit kit out there.
Sorry, I have no input on the actual swap, just some tidbits for power and reliability.
Also, just a heads up, AEM can do some funky things with VTC. Most K guys don't venture from Hondata.
I would look up HPT and buy their timing chain guard and I believe they make the timing chain cover baffle too. Buy a k20z3 (06-11 SI / RBC) upper chain guard, the early K20s have a small guard on top known to cause issues. They have timing chain tensioner issues much like the F-series, but it is more related to horribly designed cams. if you stick with OEM cams or a tried and true set of cams, you shouldn't have to worry about the Tensioner. There's a 90* bend inside of the oil pump that you can have machined for better flow (without cavitation) north of 8500 RPMs, or there is a S2000 oil pump retrofit kit out there.
Sorry, I have no input on the actual swap, just some tidbits for power and reliability.
Also, just a heads up, AEM can do some funky things with VTC. Most K guys don't venture from Hondata.
Very useful information in your post man, thank you very much.
It might not be swap related but nevertheless a lot of information for future thought in case i want to make it a bit faster or more bulletproof.
I know that the engine already has some porting in it. It is actually the engine of my mechanic which i have been using only in his EG Civic swap Time Attack for the last few years.
It is a know quantity to me, with low milage in it and conditioned perfectly.
I will keep the AEM note in mind, although the Civic has been running with an outdated AEM Series 1 for a few years now without a problem.
Although the AEM is the more expensive option i went for it as i was under the impression this would be an easier fit on a pre-06 S2000 than the Hondata unit.
Thanks a lot for you time and effort in your post! Appreciate it!
SBIT = As soon as the damn car is going to be finished you will know!! I can't wait to get my hands on it and drive again!
iridedumped = Nice build you got there mate! Glad you can now enjoy driving it! Wouldn't be my preference but i am always happy for a fellow s2k owner that tries to be different.
05-24-2016, 05:42 AM
#9
Wow, that sounds like a bitter story man!
The dry sump is a thought for the future as i am missing the budget for one now. But good luck selling that and funding your new engine!
Are the problems you are writing connected to each other?
The cracked engine was a matter of bad luck during the transportation.
The dip in the second engine was not oil related from what i understand. It was a bolt on - tune related problem.
Sounds like something was not working correct with the other parts.
When you say it made no power, how much was that?
The engine i have bought is already baffled. I hope that this will be enough to avoid the problems you are talking about under braking.
Although the speculation of oil moving to the front abruptly makes total sense.
That was one of my fears and you seem to be validating that.
Makes me think.
Hopefully someone else will chip in this topic, full of joy and positive comments on his K-Swap so i will feel a bit better
The dry sump is a thought for the future as i am missing the budget for one now. But good luck selling that and funding your new engine!
Are the problems you are writing connected to each other?
The cracked engine was a matter of bad luck during the transportation.
The dip in the second engine was not oil related from what i understand. It was a bolt on - tune related problem.
Sounds like something was not working correct with the other parts.
When you say it made no power, how much was that?
The engine i have bought is already baffled. I hope that this will be enough to avoid the problems you are talking about under braking.
Although the speculation of oil moving to the front abruptly makes total sense.
That was one of my fears and you seem to be validating that.
Makes me think.
Hopefully someone else will chip in this topic, full of joy and positive comments on his K-Swap so i will feel a bit better
First engine being cracked i believe to have happened in shipping yes. It was right at the corner of the block so it would make sense.
2nd engine on Stock S2000 Intake Manifold and Kelford B cams made 241whp. I swapped cams (drag cartel 4's), and intake manifold (excessive 58mm) and it made 272whp.
Attached are the 2 dyno's I had from engine #2.
I had a baffled pan, problem was it wasn't baffled the correct way to stop oil from going up in the timing chain.
05-24-2016, 07:37 AM
#10
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First engine being cracked i believe to have happened in shipping yes. It was right at the corner of the block so it would make sense.
2nd engine on Stock S2000 Intake Manifold and Kelford B cams made 241whp. I swapped cams (drag cartel 4's), and intake manifold (excessive 58mm) and it made 272whp.
Attached are the 2 dyno's I had from engine #2.
3rd I had a baffled pan, problem was it wasn't baffled the correct way to stop oil from going up in the timing chain.
2nd engine on Stock S2000 Intake Manifold and Kelford B cams made 241whp. I swapped cams (drag cartel 4's), and intake manifold (excessive 58mm) and it made 272whp.
Attached are the 2 dyno's I had from engine #2.
3rd I had a baffled pan, problem was it wasn't baffled the correct way to stop oil from going up in the timing chain.
I am curious about how much more loss there is when a K-Series is put in a rwd car like the S2000.
So the K24 is around 300hp at the crank! Nice!