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AP2 *Staggered* alignment specs

Old 04-16-2018, 06:20 AM
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Default AP2 *Staggered* alignment specs

I'm currently running 225/255 staggered on koni yellows with eibach springs, stock sway bars. I'm planning on moving to 255 square eventually, but for now I'm looking confirmation on alignment specs for my staggered setup, since all the literature out there seems to be for square setup s2000s.

Car is a DD with more of a focus on autoX this season with maybe a track day here or there.

Planned alignment specs:

Front:
Camber: -2.5 deg
Caster: max I can get with that camber while staying even on both sides, thinking around 6.5 deg with my setup
Toe: 0
Rear
Camber: -2.0 deg
Toe: 1/16th total toe

My hope is the front camber will help balance out some understeer with my higher rear grip. I know not many actually run staggered, but just hoping to get any thoughts on if this seems like the specs match what I'm looking for.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:55 AM
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Looks like that should work. Most who run square run a much stiffer front bar to balance the car and take advantage of the additional front grip while alleviating load on the outside rear, for added grip all around. With stock bars and decent front camber, I bet you're fine on 225/255.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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I ran a square set up on my Ap2 on stock roll bars, 9k Fortune 500s and 255 all around, and it oversteered like nutso. I even removed the rear sway and softened up the coils in the rear, but ultimately I had to put 225s on the front to even it back out. As mentioned above, you could put a big roll bar up front to even it out. Or get coils that are stiffer in the front to keep it neutral
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:52 PM
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The specs you listed is exactly what I would recommend. I have ran something very similar on track when my car was still on 225/255 tires with good results. Additional front camber should help with understeer in lower speed corners. Keep in mind that depending on your ride height you might not be able to achieve the camber you are after.

Keep in mind that if you go to 255/255 you will see a ton of conflicting posts. People that are used to driving an understeering car think a car that is neutral is oversteering..
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:38 PM
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I can't speak to the track days (which aren't competitive anyway), but in autocross I'm not sure what you are expecting. The springs and wheels will probably put you in either STR or a modified class. The shocks date from the 1940s and IMHO the only positive thing is a ride height adjustment. You didn't spec the tires, but there are only 3 (Bridgestone RE71r, BFG Rival 1.5S, and maybe Dunlop Direzza III, we don't know yet) that are competitive in classes that don't allow race tires. To get over 1.9° negative camber in the front requires offset ball joints which again move you out of a street glass.

You should be fine with those specs for just driving about. You need to be very careful with the offset of the wheels to get under the fenders. The STR cars run -3+° camber with 17x9/17+60-+64 wheels to get 255/40-17 tires under the fender. In B/Street, I have run 225/255 RE71r on OEM AP2 wheels with -1.7° in front.
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidNJ View Post
I can't speak to the track days (which aren't competitive anyway), but in autocross I'm not sure what you are expecting. The springs and wheels will probably put you in either STR or a modified class. The shocks date from the 1940s and IMHO the only positive thing is a ride height adjustment. You didn't spec the tires, but there are only 3 (Bridgestone RE71r, BFG Rival 1.5S, and maybe Dunlop Direzza III, we don't know yet) that are competitive in classes that don't allow race tires. To get over 1.9° negative camber in the front requires offset ball joints which again move you out of a street glass.

You should be fine with those specs for just driving about. You need to be very careful with the offset of the wheels to get under the fenders. The STR cars run -3+° camber with 17x9/17+60-+64 wheels to get 255/40-17 tires under the fender. In B/Street, I have run 225/255 RE71r on OEM AP2 wheels with -1.7° in front.
Definitely in STR class, and no worries I'm fully aware that I won't be competitive with my current setup, using RS4's btw. More-so focusing on having fun and improving my driving skill while I save up to get the proper safety equipment to get me back into HPDE. Since it seems all the tracks out here in NJ aren't as lenient with broomstick as they were in Michigan (probably a good thing though).

For my last alignment he was able to get me -2.25ish up front and said he still had a little room to go if I wanted, but yeah I've seen guys that couldn't get past -2 even with a slight drop, so I guess we'll see how it goes this time with the koni's on. Might have to settle for -2.25 up front if that ends up being my max.

As far as fitment goes, I've already run hpde back in Michigan with this setup (different shocks but same ride height) and had no clearance issues (fenders are rolled and rear tab relocated). Once I switch to 255/255 that'll be another story though... Oh and regarding the Koni's, I've seen a lot of mixed opinions on them, not my first choice no doubt, but I got a great deal on them from a friend and needed new shocks, so figured they'd be a solid option for now.

Last edited by rbtz; 04-17-2018 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rbtz View Post
Definitely in STR class, and no worries I'm fully aware that I won't be competitive with my current setup, using RS4's btw. More-so focusing on having fun and improving my driving skill while I save up to get the proper safety equipment to get me back into HPDE. Since it seems all the tracks out here in NJ aren't as lenient with broomstick as they were in Michigan (probably a good thing though).

For my last alignment he was able to get me -2.25ish up front and said he still had a little room to go if I wanted, but yeah I've seen guys that couldn't get past -2 even with a slight drop, so I guess we'll see how it goes this time with the koni's on. Might have to settle for -2.25 up front if that ends up being my max.

As far as fitment goes, I've already run hpde back in Michigan with this setup (different shocks but same ride height) and had no clearance issues (fenders are rolled and rear tab relocated). Once I switch to 255/255 that'll be another story though... Oh and regarding the Koni's, I've seen a lot of mixed opinions on them, not my first choice no doubt, but I got a great deal on them from a friend and needed new shocks, so figured they'd be a solid option for now.
Have you considered a foamectomy like Miata folks? That's the only way I can pass the broomstick test (I'm 6'3" FWIW). Found a lower seat half from a junkyard on ebay and ripped out most of the foam in it, surprisingly not uncomfortable for 20 minute track sessions. Driving to and from the track though, that's another story.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Shredwick View Post
Have you considered a foamectomy like Miata folks? That's the only way I can pass the broomstick test (I'm 6'3" FWIW). Found a lower seat half from a junkyard on ebay and ripped out most of the foam in it, surprisingly not uncomfortable for 20 minute track sessions. Driving to and from the track though, that's another story.
Do you pass with stock hoops doing that, or do you still need a rollbar? Definitely something I'm considering, or even if there's a way I can (safely) modify the rails to allow me to sit lower, be willing to lose the ability to slide it even.


Also just an update regarding the alignment in case anyone with a similar setup searches this up, they were able to get me -2.5 camber front with just koni yellows and eibach springs on the top perch. I also went with 7 degrees of caster with that camber, but they could have given me aprox .5 more caster even with that camber. So, not sure if everyone will be able to get that much front camber without further mods, but I was able to.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rbtz View Post
Do you pass with stock hoops doing that, or do you still need a rollbar? Definitely something I'm considering, or even if there's a way I can (safely) modify the rails to allow me to sit lower, be willing to lose the ability to slide it even.


Also just an update regarding the alignment in case anyone with a similar setup searches this up, they were able to get me -2.5 camber front with just koni yellows and eibach springs on the top perch. I also went with 7 degrees of caster with that camber, but they could have given me aprox .5 more caster even with that camber. So, not sure if everyone will be able to get that much front camber without further mods, but I was able to.
Yep, with stock hoops. Forgot to mention that I have the Backyard Special lowering rails as well in my last post. The seat is lowered 20mm which brings the bottom of it in contact with the floor. Like all the threads about those rails say, 20mm may not seem like a lot but the difference is incredible.

Get someone to measure how much of a drop you need to pass the test, I think the foam alone was good for a ~3 inch drop IIRC.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Shredwick View Post
Yep, with stock hoops. Forgot to mention that I have the Backyard Special lowering rails as well in my last post. The seat is lowered 20mm which brings the bottom of it in contact with the floor. Like all the threads about those rails say, 20mm may not seem like a lot but the difference is incredible.

Get someone to measure how much of a drop you need to pass the test, I think the foam alone was good for a ~3 inch drop IIRC.
Dang didn't think I could get that much just removing the foam, definitely going to look into that
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