gptoyz

I'm sorry but that's not the way performance braking systems work.

BBKs nor fancy rotors are not the IMPORTANT component that stops the car, it's the tires!
The brake pads allow you to reach your tire's maximum grip faster, but you can't brake any harder than when your ABS system kicks in. If you rip out the ABS, you can only increase the braking up to the point that you lock up and flat spot the tires.

If you do anything to your brakes to upset the braking bias you are only making your braking performance worse.

If a guy/gal who tossed on a BBK and said they could drive around a track with nothing more than HP+ or stoptech pads and it's sufficient braking performance - they are obviously not fast or maybe they were driving around a nascar oval.

As far as rotor cracking goes, you can crack any rotor - even BBKs, I'll have to dig up a pic of my friend's stoptechs that cracked at buttonwillow. Rotors crack because of a massive change in temperature similar to when you take a hot glass and you rapidly introduce cold water to it. On the s2000, generally this happens when rotors aren't sufficiently allowed to cool and is exacerbated by poor metallurgy (think centrics vs Honda Factory Rotors). A bbk setup isn't as prone to cracking because the temperatures may not reach as high and enlarged rotors & calipers dissipate heat quicker.

Pad selection:
For a relatively novice auto-x or track driver - the stock pads are more than sufficient - actually the only thing that won't be up to the abuse are the rubber lines and brake fluid. Once the driver gains more experience in either discipline or both; their pad requirements will differ largely. A local auto-x is generally what less than 1 minute/lap and probably 2 laps(1 hot) per run? A track driver's minimum time on track will be roughly 2 mins with most sessions being 15-20 minutes and exposed to significantly higher temperatures than the auto-x. The Auto-x driver will want a pad that reaches maximum mU quickly but doesn't need ridiculous temperature tolerances. The track driver, for the most part will want higher temperature tolerances and a high mU but will sacrifice cold temp performance.

If you want a good braking setup start with the following:
Good fluid - Highly recommend Torque RT700 or Castrol SRF; if none of those any of the 600s will be sufficient. Avoid RBF 660 that stuff is a scam.
Good braided lines
Good bleed
Good rotors - Factory Honda, DBA, Project Mu, Brembo, Duralast - AVOID cross drilled or slotted rotors like the money trap that they are
Same pads front and back - I'm staying clear of carbotechs for awhile - there backing plates feel flimsy I feel flex in the pedal. Big fan of hawks, I'm currently using DTC 60s front and rear. I would probably recommend starting with some DTC30s or Street Race

Then if you really want to venture off the beaten path and become a braking nerd, arm yourself with a Notebook, pen, temperature paint and a temperature probe and lots of money. Temperature is about the only metric you can use to determine if pad compound staggering is working for you or making your setup worse.

Chibo

GP, are you staggered or square?

My input RE: ABS, its better than humans now. Ripping it out in a modern car is not going to help you, it's going to hurt you.

duffman13

Did you mean to reply to me or someone else?

I didn't say anything about stopping power, and only mentioned heat capacity, and fade. I also was talking about component longevity, particularly pads, as a reason someone might want to make the jump if just to avoid changing pads for every track day, and buying new pads every 3 track days.

gptoyz

Square

ABS is better for most Humans. The best platform I have for comparison is on the NA miata, mine is a completely manual na miata and my friend has one with ABS with very similar setups and I have learned how to brake up to the limit just before the brakes lock up. Still over the course of a track day, I may have a minor lock up or 2.

My point about mentioning ABS, is that if you upset the balance in the calibrated abs system of S2000 and encourage the earlier activation of the ABS system then you are only making your braking worse!

gptoyz

Fade is when the pads are operating beyond their limit, you can fade a BBK with crappy pads just as you can fade a stock system with bad pad choice.

Whoever is changing their pads out ever 3 track days is doing something wrong. If your brake pads are being consumed that fast, it's probably bad technique, overworking the ABS or wrong pad choice.

A BBK MAY out perform stock braking system over a long period of time cost wise, IF and only IF you don't crack any rotors.

Just remember 2 rings are about $700

If you happen to crack your rotor @ a track day with a BBK, your day/weekend is done! The chances someone has a spare ring and hardware will be slim to none. Walking down the paddock you are bound to find an s2000 buddy who has a spare rotor to lend you and unless you are in the middle of BFE - there is bound to be a parts store within driving distance to get you back on track by the next day.

To me unless you are running an endurance race or only drive at COTA or Laguna Seca a BBK is just not worth the investment - especially when you take into account wheel selection is severely limited.

Mr. Grieb

Acura TL-Type S BBK here. Pads - Whatever the calipers came with as they had tons of life left. Rotors - I think they're centric. Do i use them to their full extent? No. Do i regret doing them? Kinda, my choice of wheels went from like 100s of options to like 4. Luckly TC105N's fit with a 5mm spacer up front. I have a template in another thread so you can see if your wheels will fit. I more or less just did this for a fun weekend project and liked the way it turned out. I will be restoring the calipers once i have a chance with a G2 Caliper paint kit.

edit: 17x9 +49 here

SlowTeg

I think I got into this discussion with you gptoyz already, and many tracks around here, it's not uncommon to go through a set of pads on a square setup in a weekend on the oem brakes. This is running carbotech xp10's, so it's not an issue with pad selection. I think I got ~5 days on a set of dtc60's when I was on a staggered setup. The problem with the OEM front rotors is that they are simply too small and lack the heat capacity, and thus they run too hot which causes pad compounds to run too hot. I'm running a square setup now with a BBK and have done a handful or so of track days and the pads are only slightly worn. I'm sure I'll get a good 15+ days out of a set of pads.

People around here that don't burn through pads on the oem brakes are slow.

Singh_snisen

Auto x u want something small. Wilwood dynalite kit is a great option. It's only like 1000$ and to rebuild the kit is cheap. I personally run this kit on my road race car. No complaints. Then again Stoptech kit is one of the best.

gptoyz

Heat and cF are the two most important and interdependent factors when choosing pads. Just because you run a BBK doesn't mean you can get out of choosing one pad or another.

Let's say because you run a bbk you can't run a superior brake pad compound because you can't get enough heat in the pads, well obviously your braking performance would be terrible. Like wise if you are on a stock brake setup and choose a weak temp pad you will overheat the pads and wear them out extremely fast, too.

So let's go with your estimates about pad consumption being 3x as often on your front brakes. Assuming $2k for a stoptech bbk + a set of pads - that's approximately 9 sets of front stock pads and you got 5 days out of a set of front pads - you have to track at least 45 days without incident to recoup your investment on your BBK.

Every time you have to change rings, set yourself back further.

BBKs aren't the panacea to going fast. The stock brakes are more than adequate for someone doing track days - fast or slow.

If you are endurance racing or hard parking then maybe BBKs are a must have.

DHonovich

I regularly blew through a set of brake pads and rotors in 2-4 days of driving (with brake ducts). I switched to stoptech (no brake ducts needed) and raced all year last season on 1 set of pads. The predictability of the stoptech feel is also unbelievable during a 40 minute sprint race. Many of my passes are done in the brake zones due to this.