Can I still be competitive with OEM 3pt belts?
03-09-2018, 07:12 AM
#21
If you don't care much about safety or regulations and more about keeping yourself planted in the seat you could always do this: Ballade Sports
or this the electro magnetic thing that modifry used to sell for the factory 3 point harnesses.
for a lot less headache and cost than a proper roll bar.
or this the electro magnetic thing that modifry used to sell for the factory 3 point harnesses.
for a lot less headache and cost than a proper roll bar.
For your question:
Safety: I would regard the factory seat, seat belt, air bags and roll over protection as a system that was designed to work together. A tremendous amount of testing goes into these systems to ensure efficacy. Replacing any single item may not actually increase your overall safety. However if you are going to replace the seat, harness, roll over protection with motor sports grade parts and wore a helmet, you are replacing the system. This should improve protection on a racetrack.
Performance: I have used race buckets in a few cars including the S2000. In most cars (especially a C6 Vette) I noticed an improvement in my ability to focus on car control rather than my position/security in the vehicle. In the S2000, I noticed this less so. First, the stock seat are pretty damn good. Second I lowered my seats and added some foam to the bolsters. Third, the cockpit is snug so you really can't move that much anyway. So for performance, race buckets offered a small improvement. FYI, I track and street driver my car on 200TW tires.
03-09-2018, 08:00 AM
#22
What was the worst crash you have had?
I've had a few, seen more, some up close and personal. They were never expected. Once in them, there was never any control over what happened.
It seems like the HPDE organizers keep a pretty tight lid on things. There are lots of crash videos. It seems most of the fatalities are known. Reports of injuries don't seem as public.
I've had a few, seen more, some up close and personal. They were never expected. Once in them, there was never any control over what happened.
It seems like the HPDE organizers keep a pretty tight lid on things. There are lots of crash videos. It seems most of the fatalities are known. Reports of injuries don't seem as public.
03-09-2018, 02:01 PM
#23
Just Rubbing other cars on track in racing. Got hit pretty solidly from behind at the runoffs in 08 but was able to continue. Locked up battling for position and pushed the guy in front off once, That's about it. A couple of spins here and there over the years but never resulted in hitting anything.
I've been over on the roof 3 times, all in SCCA Showroom Stock. Two were slow rolls in the rain straight to the roof. The other was, I told, a wild barrel role in the downhill at Lime Rock (rain was involved there also, but the track was dry); it was the only one that totaled the car. Two significant T-bones. Lots of spins, 2-wheels off on a corner exit. The barrel roll was after 2 became 4 on ground that had been soaked in an overnight rainstorm. In the oval track car bumping was the norm.
I've seen quite a few others. A few other barrel rolls in the downhill at Lime Rock. Cars stacked on top of each other. A lot of it happens in a chain reaction, sometimes when an evasive reaction causes a bigger loss of control on the second or third car than the car that started it.
The cost of HPDE insurance and relative unavailability of race insurance should be indicators of the risk. Most (all?) standard life insurance policies don't cover motorsports or skydiving. I understand the business reason for not publicising accidents and injuries, however, the lack of information makes it hard for people, experienced or novice, to appraise risks.
These are two recent HPDE videos:
03-09-2018, 03:24 PM
#24
Another one. As you can see, it doesn't take much for things to turn bad really suddenly:
OP: Just my opinion, but if you want to be "competitive," you are clearly past the point of just going out driving for fun. You're pushing your limits and the car's, and it's time for proper safety equipment. If you don't want to chop up your CR (and I don't blame you!) then look for a car that you don't mind cutting up.
OP: Just my opinion, but if you want to be "competitive," you are clearly past the point of just going out driving for fun. You're pushing your limits and the car's, and it's time for proper safety equipment. If you don't want to chop up your CR (and I don't blame you!) then look for a car that you don't mind cutting up.
03-09-2018, 06:01 PM
#26
Community Organizer
OK, that's enough YouTube for tonight.
Chop up that CR and #trackthatshit. Jump in. It's just a car.
Chop up that CR and #trackthatshit. Jump in. It's just a car.
03-10-2018, 04:16 AM
#27
That first crash was on the instructor, had he kept the wheel straight he might have even kept that on the track, at worse he was going to burry it in the gravel. One of my main rules are that we don’t turn in until we are slowed enough, if that doesn’t happen then we deal with it. There is usually way more space even in the corner itself if you over cook it not to mention all the extra run off
03-10-2018, 05:55 AM
#28
That first crash was on the instructor, had he kept the wheel straight he might have even kept that on the track, at worse he was going to burry it in the gravel. One of my main rules are that we don’t turn in until we are slowed enough, if that doesn’t happen then we deal with it. There is usually way more space even in the corner itself if you over cook it not to mention all the extra run off
03-10-2018, 06:31 AM
#29
I bet bet a good # of novice driver accidents are that scenario right there though. “I won’t turn, turn the wheel more!”
03-10-2018, 01:59 PM
#30
Agreed.
And to OP's original question, yes, you can still be competitive - just don't crash. In fact, crashing is NOT competitive unless it's a demolition derby...
Back to the original point for OP, if you're planning on tracking and doing it more seriously, or plan to push limits further and further to get faster lap times, then you're inherently increasing your risk. It's all based on your tolerance level and what you're willing to accept. A CR with wheels, RE71R, coilovers, and some basic bolt-ons with a goal of 1:59.9xx is pushing within ~2-3 seconds of what that car is capable of (given to a pro driver). You are essentially driving into the land of "stupid" (and i mean that in the context of eventually getting to the point of just "trusting" the car and your skills that it will stick and you will carry the speed to go faster through the turns) in order to go faster. Lots of things can and do happen in the land of stupid...
There are also the possibilities of mechanical failures, both your own and someone else's. Some one blowing a line and dumping fluids on Riverside, Phil-Hill/Magic-Mt., or the Esses - some of the fastest parts of buttonwillow - and you're screwed.
If you click on the actual video of the E30, you'll see that it was a brake failure going over 110 mph... it's a jalopnik story.
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-driver-surv...ses-1795500447
And to OP's original question, yes, you can still be competitive - just don't crash. In fact, crashing is NOT competitive unless it's a demolition derby...
Back to the original point for OP, if you're planning on tracking and doing it more seriously, or plan to push limits further and further to get faster lap times, then you're inherently increasing your risk. It's all based on your tolerance level and what you're willing to accept. A CR with wheels, RE71R, coilovers, and some basic bolt-ons with a goal of 1:59.9xx is pushing within ~2-3 seconds of what that car is capable of (given to a pro driver). You are essentially driving into the land of "stupid" (and i mean that in the context of eventually getting to the point of just "trusting" the car and your skills that it will stick and you will carry the speed to go faster through the turns) in order to go faster. Lots of things can and do happen in the land of stupid...
There are also the possibilities of mechanical failures, both your own and someone else's. Some one blowing a line and dumping fluids on Riverside, Phil-Hill/Magic-Mt., or the Esses - some of the fastest parts of buttonwillow - and you're screwed.
That first crash was on the instructor, had he kept the wheel straight he might have even kept that on the track, at worse he was going to burry it in the gravel. One of my main rules are that we don’t turn in until we are slowed enough, if that doesn’t happen then we deal with it. There is usually way more space even in the corner itself if you over cook it not to mention all the extra run off
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-driver-surv...ses-1795500447
