Can I still be competitive with OEM 3pt belts?
03-10-2018, 05:29 PM
#31
Agreed.
And to OP's original question, yes, you can still be competitive - just don't crash. In fact, crashing is NOT competitive unless it's a demolition derby...
Back to the original point for OP, if you're planning on tracking and doing it more seriously, or plan to push limits further and further to get faster lap times, then you're inherently increasing your risk. It's all based on your tolerance level and what you're willing to accept. A CR with wheels, RE71R, coilovers, and some basic bolt-ons with a goal of 1:59.9xx is pushing within ~2-3 seconds of what that car is capable of (given to a pro driver). You are essentially driving into the land of "stupid" (and i mean that in the context of eventually getting to the point of just "trusting" the car and your skills that it will stick and you will carry the speed to go faster through the turns) in order to go faster. Lots of things can and do happen in the land of stupid...
There are also the possibilities of mechanical failures, both your own and someone else's. Some one blowing a line and dumping fluids on Riverside, Phil-Hill/Magic-Mt., or the Esses - some of the fastest parts of buttonwillow - and you're screwed.
If you click on the actual video of the E30, you'll see that it was a brake failure going over 110 mph... it's a jalopnik story.
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-driver-surv...ses-1795500447
And to OP's original question, yes, you can still be competitive - just don't crash. In fact, crashing is NOT competitive unless it's a demolition derby...
Back to the original point for OP, if you're planning on tracking and doing it more seriously, or plan to push limits further and further to get faster lap times, then you're inherently increasing your risk. It's all based on your tolerance level and what you're willing to accept. A CR with wheels, RE71R, coilovers, and some basic bolt-ons with a goal of 1:59.9xx is pushing within ~2-3 seconds of what that car is capable of (given to a pro driver). You are essentially driving into the land of "stupid" (and i mean that in the context of eventually getting to the point of just "trusting" the car and your skills that it will stick and you will carry the speed to go faster through the turns) in order to go faster. Lots of things can and do happen in the land of stupid...
There are also the possibilities of mechanical failures, both your own and someone else's. Some one blowing a line and dumping fluids on Riverside, Phil-Hill/Magic-Mt., or the Esses - some of the fastest parts of buttonwillow - and you're screwed.
If you click on the actual video of the E30, you'll see that it was a brake failure going over 110 mph... it's a jalopnik story.
https://jalopnik.com/bmw-driver-surv...ses-1795500447
03-11-2018, 12:50 PM
#32
Ugh this post is familiar territory...I've been running with my head in the sand with an aftermarket seat with the 3 point OEM belt and air bags. Facing reality this year I either need to go all in and do a roll bar, harness, HANS especially if I want to go square, do a wing, etc..
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
03-11-2018, 01:28 PM
#33
Community Organizer
Ugh this post is familiar territory...I've been running with my head in the sand with an aftermarket seat with the 3 point OEM belt and air bags. Facing reality this year I either need to go all in and do a roll bar, harness, HANS especially if I want to go square, do a wing, etc..
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
03-11-2018, 02:43 PM
#34
Ugh this post is familiar territory...I've been running with my head in the sand with an aftermarket seat with the 3 point OEM belt and air bags. Facing reality this year I either need to go all in and do a roll bar, harness, HANS especially if I want to go square, do a wing, etc..
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
I'm more thinking the right answer for me is to sell the S and buy something more track built than to do it myself. Decisions decisions
RSG or Harddog -$700
Install - $300-$400
Harness - $400
HNR - $400-$600
The other option is to trade your s2k for someone else's track S2k. A lot of people after building a track s2k end up wanting to go back to a simpler street s2k.
03-11-2018, 04:12 PM
#35
Vintage cars and street rods are virtually always cheaper to buy as someone else's completed restoration or project. Race cars are...sometimes. In Prepare to Win Carroll Smith had the keen observation: the only reason a race car is shipped assembled is to ensure the buyer receives all the parts. The person who assembled it knew they weren't going to drive it.
Beyond that, nearly every race car, and nearly every converted S2000, was modified on a budget. There are Spec Miatas that were built with nearly no budget cap. Those run $40k to a bit over $60k track ready. That is with a minimally modified 135hp motor. Highly restrictive suspension rules. Even then, the top drivers usually replace their cars regularly and any moderate crash will demand a new chassis (about $15k-$20k depending on who you talk to).
So the first step would be to determine your budget...realistic all-encompassing budget including an allowance for things that break...and determine which sanctioning body and in which classes you want to run. That last item will need you to determine how competitive you want to be or just driving around, how fast you want to go, and if you want to focus on endurance events or not. Running SCCA Majors in Spec Racer Ford Gen 3 is a lot different than focusing on LeMons. For the record, a competitive SRF3 will cost less than a prepared S2000, is rebuildable after nearly any crash, typically never has a field with less than 15 cars...and over 100 at last year's runoffs. While they only have 135hp, they only weight 1600# with the driver. An SRF Gen 2 can be purchased for around $12k-$15k, has 105hp and is 100# heavier. They have SCCA regional races and can run in other events including I imagine HPDE events. You will get wet in the rain.
Beyond that, nearly every race car, and nearly every converted S2000, was modified on a budget. There are Spec Miatas that were built with nearly no budget cap. Those run $40k to a bit over $60k track ready. That is with a minimally modified 135hp motor. Highly restrictive suspension rules. Even then, the top drivers usually replace their cars regularly and any moderate crash will demand a new chassis (about $15k-$20k depending on who you talk to).
So the first step would be to determine your budget...realistic all-encompassing budget including an allowance for things that break...and determine which sanctioning body and in which classes you want to run. That last item will need you to determine how competitive you want to be or just driving around, how fast you want to go, and if you want to focus on endurance events or not. Running SCCA Majors in Spec Racer Ford Gen 3 is a lot different than focusing on LeMons. For the record, a competitive SRF3 will cost less than a prepared S2000, is rebuildable after nearly any crash, typically never has a field with less than 15 cars...and over 100 at last year's runoffs. While they only have 135hp, they only weight 1600# with the driver. An SRF Gen 2 can be purchased for around $12k-$15k, has 105hp and is 100# heavier. They have SCCA regional races and can run in other events including I imagine HPDE events. You will get wet in the rain.
03-12-2018, 06:15 AM
#36
Have you seen other crashes?
I've been over on the roof 3 times, all in SCCA Showroom Stock. Two were slow rolls in the rain straight to the roof. The other was, I told, a wild barrel role in the downhill at Lime Rock (rain was involved there also, but the track was dry); it was the only one that totaled the car. Two significant T-bones. Lots of spins, 2-wheels off on a corner exit. The barrel roll was after 2 became 4 on ground that had been soaked in an overnight rainstorm. In the oval track car bumping was the norm.
I've seen quite a few others. A few other barrel rolls in the downhill at Lime Rock. Cars stacked on top of each other. A lot of it happens in a chain reaction, sometimes when an evasive reaction causes a bigger loss of control on the second or third car than the car that started it.
The cost of HPDE insurance and relative unavailability of race insurance should be indicators of the risk. Most (all?) standard life insurance policies don't cover motorsports or skydiving. I understand the business reason for not publicising accidents and injuries, however, the lack of information makes it hard for people, experienced or novice, to appraise risks.
These are two recent HPDE videos:
https://youtu.be/Gu5tmx9YTBo?t=17s
https://youtu.be/2Ed1qofGViw?t=1m
I've been over on the roof 3 times, all in SCCA Showroom Stock. Two were slow rolls in the rain straight to the roof. The other was, I told, a wild barrel role in the downhill at Lime Rock (rain was involved there also, but the track was dry); it was the only one that totaled the car. Two significant T-bones. Lots of spins, 2-wheels off on a corner exit. The barrel roll was after 2 became 4 on ground that had been soaked in an overnight rainstorm. In the oval track car bumping was the norm.
I've seen quite a few others. A few other barrel rolls in the downhill at Lime Rock. Cars stacked on top of each other. A lot of it happens in a chain reaction, sometimes when an evasive reaction causes a bigger loss of control on the second or third car than the car that started it.
The cost of HPDE insurance and relative unavailability of race insurance should be indicators of the risk. Most (all?) standard life insurance policies don't cover motorsports or skydiving. I understand the business reason for not publicising accidents and injuries, however, the lack of information makes it hard for people, experienced or novice, to appraise risks.
These are two recent HPDE videos:
https://youtu.be/Gu5tmx9YTBo?t=17s
https://youtu.be/2Ed1qofGViw?t=1m
03-24-2018, 12:43 PM
#37
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OP, I have a brand new Modifry seat belt lock if interested...
For your question:
Safety: I would regard the factory seat, seat belt, air bags and roll over protection as a system that was designed to work together. A tremendous amount of testing goes into these systems to ensure efficacy. Replacing any single item may not actually increase your overall safety. However if you are going to replace the seat, harness, roll over protection with motor sports grade parts and wore a helmet, you are replacing the system. This should improve protection on a racetrack.
Performance: I have used race buckets in a few cars including the S2000. In most cars (especially a C6 Vette) I noticed an improvement in my ability to focus on car control rather than my position/security in the vehicle. In the S2000, I noticed this less so. First, the stock seat are pretty damn good. Second I lowered my seats and added some foam to the bolsters. Third, the cockpit is snug so you really can't move that much anyway. So for performance, race buckets offered a small improvement. FYI, I track and street driver my car on 200TW tires.
For your question:
Safety: I would regard the factory seat, seat belt, air bags and roll over protection as a system that was designed to work together. A tremendous amount of testing goes into these systems to ensure efficacy. Replacing any single item may not actually increase your overall safety. However if you are going to replace the seat, harness, roll over protection with motor sports grade parts and wore a helmet, you are replacing the system. This should improve protection on a racetrack.
Performance: I have used race buckets in a few cars including the S2000. In most cars (especially a C6 Vette) I noticed an improvement in my ability to focus on car control rather than my position/security in the vehicle. In the S2000, I noticed this less so. First, the stock seat are pretty damn good. Second I lowered my seats and added some foam to the bolsters. Third, the cockpit is snug so you really can't move that much anyway. So for performance, race buckets offered a small improvement. FYI, I track and street driver my car on 200TW tires.
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