El Cheapo BBK F+R
 

Front
http://altex002.web.fc2.com/mycars/s...rontbrake.html

front uses a 323mm
brembo fd2 caliper
RX-8 Type S · type RS rotors

Rear
http://altex002.web.fc2.com/mycars/s...rearbrake.html

312mm by 20mm wide
retains handbrake
FD3S rear rotor
RX7 rear caliper

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/j337348359
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-07-11-Ho...16.m2518.l4276
http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/o67549323

I am turning Japanese, I really think so!


Wish it was in English.

google translate, translates whole webpages

https://translate.google.com/

paste the page and go


future is naow, cant wait for the app that translates on the fly for traveling

Cool article!

I'm not too interested in the fronts as I think Stoptechs aren't too much more when you factor in the cost of the custom hardware (it costs ~$600) plus the calipers, but the replacement rotors should be a good deal cheaper.

The rears are definitely interesting. RX7 rear calipers and rotors can be had for cheap, and the hardware they're selling for the rear costs $517, which isn't cheap, but if it comes with everything needed to fit the calipers and ebrake cables that isn't too bad. So ABS should work fine with this kit correct? ABS is just operated off the sensor mounted to the hub..?

Did you order a set? This is definitely something I've been looking/waiting for. I guess the last question is if there is pad availability for the 93-95 rear rx7 calipers. :tipwink:

I did the math on piston diameters and swept areas awhile back and nothing I could find would match the fluid consumption of the front calipers save for aftermarket kits. If you don't mind a deeper pedal, go for it!

from my understand, which is prob shyte. i assume, abs is retained. That is a must for me. Price is high because your paying for a solution, someone had to figure this out, get it made, then try to sell it. I'm ok with giving someone money for their time.

They specifically state that the ebrake will work. which somehow makes it the only multi pistion rear bbk with an ebrake for street driving.

I havent pulled the trigger, debating it atm. The replacement cost on rotors/pads is where i see savings.

how much longer of a peddle?


as for pads, they are in stock, idk the cost, but assuming bigger pad, bigger diameter rotor = more stable temps. So whatever pads you run should in theory last longer.
fronts
http://store.winmaxusa.com/winmax-w5...dm-type-r.html

rears
http://store.winmaxusa.com/winmax-w5...fd3s-fd3s.html

I'm pretty sure the rx7 rear caliper is single piston based on pictures. I don't think that's too big a deal though. The ability to retain the ebrake and have a larger VENTED rotor (caliper might be slightly larger as well) are the big pluses.

I looked up pad availability and looks like hawk makes pads as does carbotech for the rx7 rear caliper. No PFC, but could probably try some dtc30's or something in the rear. The cheap replacement cost is also a big plus.

Regarding pedal travel, I'm not sure how you calculate that. Is it just based on the piston size/diameter? If you can get those numbers maybe you can get a rough idea how it'll affect pedal travel.

Please pull the trigger and let us know. I might have to order this for the rear to go with the stoptech kit in the front over the winter.

The front kit w/ the brembo calipers looks like it'll cost you $800 for the calipers, $600 for the hardware, plus rotors. At $1500+, I'd personally just opt for the stoptech kit. Yes replacement rotors will be cheaper, but I'd just err on the side of caution here and prefer a caliper and setup that was designed for the S, not to mention everything is brand new. Also with the stoptech kit, there's a very large pad selection.

Some more digging..

Rears:
S2000 OEM piston diameter = 40mm, with a smaller rotor (will update this later).
95 RX7 piston diameter = 35mm, with a larger rotor. These are definitely single piston, not dual.

I'll have to lookup some formulas later, but seems like this could work. Pedal travel could even be reduced. I'm not talking about the front though.

So some quick calculations, these are rears only using a 0.4 cF:

RX7-
caliper piston diameter- 1.37795
Rotor diameter- 12.28
Rear rotor torque- 1675.454

OEM-
caliper piston diameter- 1.5748
Rotor diameter- 11.10
Rear rotor torque- 1954.236

**RX7 rear has 14.2% less brake pressure in rear compared to OEM**

RB rear kit-
caliper piston diameter- 1.5748
diameter- 12.1
Rear rotor torque- 2152.636

**RB rear rotor- 10.1% more brake pressure**

I used this online calculator: http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/

The absolute numbers regarding the amount of torque aren't important, but the ratios between the different setups are the important part. So the RX7 rear caliper setup will have 14% less stopping power shifting the bias to the front some. Of course, this can be negated by using a slightly higher cF pad in the rear.

Would I be correct in say in layman's terms that the above proposed brake setup out provide less stopping power than OEM?

Yes. This is only for track setups. Street driving will see no benefit.

I believe this setup, coupled with a brake bias regulator, could be a cheap, and effective brake setup, while retaining the OEM handbrake

slowteg your a genius. Based on your calc, this kit doesnt have any increased brake torque. unless we start changing pad cof.

Would changing the front caliper to a willwood / stoptech increase the front brake torque?

thus giving us new issues with bias?

I haven't done any math on this kit, but I suppose the front kit will have more torque than the OEM setup, hence, you're increasing bias in the front, and reducing with the rear.

For me, this kit with a distribution valve, to increase rear bias again, you'll have a pretty capable setup for track, with good fade resistance properties, and a pretty good stopping power after adjusting the bias

So given the cost of what it takes to pull this off why not just buy the new urge twonpiece rear rotors? They basically gave us a bolt on solution and I have a feeling in the end it'll be easier and cheaper than piecing this together via the method in the OP.

Urge's isn't exactly plug and play as well, but easier to do, yes. But this one does have one big advantage for track regarding Urge's, which is increased cooling capability and fade resistance because of the larger and wider rotor. The Urge kit will be a lot lighter, though, that's for sure

I have a feeling that Urge's a purpose built vented 2-piece rotor will have better heat and cooling capacities than the cast rotor rx-7 solution.

Paired with the ST-40 bbk up front, i think that's the cheaper, simpler, and equally if not more effective solution.

I'd much rather have the ST-40 kit up front for the cost.

Since this is a Japanese pieced together solution, my guess is that StopTech is probably more expensive for Japanese customers and not as widely available since it needs to be imported from US based StopTech - thus making the rx-8 solution cheaper. The ST-40 caliper is basically a replica of Porsche's front caliper from the 964 and 993 with some tweaks and added improvements (hence great pad availability). I also think that the two-piece rotor from StopTech also outshines the cast rotor solution up front.

I am of the opinion that current US options for US customers will be a cheaper, simpler, and an equally if not more effective solution than what is being proposed. I think that the proposed mix of rx-7/8 parts with custom brackets is more applicable to non-US based customers with limited access to aftermarket support.

Hard to say, my last bbk was cayenne calipers for 400 bucks before they got popular, and ml55 rotors. Sometimes is all about find the eighth offset. It would prob be more fade resistant, but can we run abs with a proportional valve?

Definitely not a genius, just plugged some numbers into a calculator. :p

I honetsly don't know about the front setup. I'm quite busy lately with other stuff non-car related so don't have the time to plug in some figures for a different front setup.

Regarding whether a new proportioning valve is really needed.. I'd say that sounds like bigtime overkill. People on square setups tend to run staggered pads to begin with, so maybe you just run non-staggered pads and it'd be fine? I'm a believer in trying to get things ideal for the driver if possible, but past a certain point we aren't talking about a HUGE shift in brake bias, so perhaps some driver adaptation is another plausible solution..

Urge rear rotors are $700, and while vented, are smaller diameter AND thinner than the OEM rx7 rears. Also, you have to shave down the rear pads (if new) for them to fit the rotors.

Nice thing about the rx7 rears are thicker and larger diameter rotors (more heat capacity), no need to mess with shaving pads or swapping in worn ones and dirt cheap replacement parts. Ya I get that they're heavier but they're OEM rotors, so not a big deal to me. Cost wise we aren't talking a big difference either. Another $2-300 which is a drop in the bucket these days. Pad selection is decent but not great for the rx7 rears.

Like I said, I might have to look into this setup over the winter. Looks like it should be a good setup.

I don't think this is from a standard RX7. I'm pretty sure the rotors were from the Spirit-R or one of the nicer models so availability might not be that simple

Crap didn't realize that. I think you're correct. I think the rear rotors are 11.6" for the US model.. :scratch:

I think Bullwings said it best. I'm sure it's a good or cheap option in Japan but I think the companies producing product in the U.S. are going to give us a better product for less money.

Also found an old thread where it looks like there was some discussion about a two piece non vented disc STR legal rear rotor option. Not sure anything was ever produced.

Well, yes and no. I'm still not necessarily sold on the Urge rear rotors, but a local member purchased a set of the Urge rotors so I'll have to check them out one day. I'm a little concerned with how thin they are for vented rotors but perhaps that concern isn't valid.

I think you're probably talking about nmrado, he had some custom non-vented rears made. You can run an OTS Wilwood hat (summit sells them) and have a custom rotor ring made.

Really, if you wanted the best of both worlds for a rear setup you use the OTS Wilwood hat, rx7 rear caliper (the ability to use a thicker vented rotor is nice), and a custom sized rotor to keep brake bias the same as stock (maybe say 12.5", you can have custom rotor rings made for not too much moola). Of course, then you'd need custom made brackets that spaced the caliper out a little further, and e brake cable adapters the same as that japanese made hardware, and you have an awesome rear BBK that keeps the ebrake. RX7 rear oem calipers are cheap.

Anyone want to tackle this? I don't know anyone who could machine me some caliper brackets and e brake brackets but it should be pretty easy for those with the know how. I'll have to shoot a pm to nmrado.

@smokeygatto
hello,they say you have an Mugen N1 ecu ap1 for sale
do you stil have it?
let me your email,i can't contact you via pm.
thanks

I'm gonna bump this up because I'm curious if anyone ever purchased the adapters for the rear.. I'm seriously debating between trying this and the Urge kit.

I have the Urge kit paired with the ST40 up front, just like imstimpy.

My first day on track with the rear rotors is scheduled for the end of this month.

As far as build quality and customer service from Patrick and Urge, that review was spot on.

My take on the Urge rotors that attracted me to them in the first place.

-rotors are standard diameter, so you can still run the oem non-vented rotor - the bracket was only modified to accommodate a wider rotor unlike other bracket kits (Racing Brake, J's Racing, etc. etc. that have a larger diameter rotor as well).
-the rotor manufacture that Urge supplied is Girodisc, so should Patrick and crew ever decide to step out of the business, your supply of rotors - rings and hats - will likely still be available.
-price is way cheaper than J's at $3000 or Racing Brake at around $1000; however, even though it's cheaper, the quality is spot on and fitment is like OEM.
-you retain the parking brake. the one thing that stopped me from going with the ST22 kit for the rear.

I'm looking forward to using them on track.

Found a new rear bbk from the land of the rising sun while looking for overfenders.


http://ap1kaoru.fc2web.com/


They leave the oem rear caliper? or they change it to a nsx caliper. ns, going to have a friend translate this for me, and they convert the rotor to a vented na1 NSX. Thoughts?

You gotta be old to remember that!

I turned Japanese when I was about 12.

I'm not seeing any details of a rear BBK..? The problem with keeping the oem caliper is that you have to use a slim ~16mm rotor. If it uses an nsx rear caliper the biggest problem is probably finding them. I think the rx7 rear caliper seems the most promising.. I ended up just going with Urge rear rotors for now, as it should help things run cooler. We'll see how it does.

This is what I am running

http://www.racingbrake.com/S2000-REA...9-p/2145-k.htm

For a $1000 you get rotors, new brackets, and a set of pads.

Not a fan of Racing Brake... No thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c29IeHAhEAY

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...4f&oe=570206C5

that is one lucky sob. A rotor failed on a z4 m coupe. The rotor snapped the control arm, car went in to the armco at 100mph. totaled is an understatement.

Yeah, he was moving there and luckily had it fail where there is a lot of runoff. I hit about 110 or so in my S2000 and this E46 M3 is supercharged. IIRC, this was only the 3rd track day on these brakes.