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Endurance Race S2000

Old 10-24-2018, 06:01 AM
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Thank you guys for all the replies, I have contacted most of you on Facebook to get your experiences personally.

Now next question, Is is possible to run an S2k for 7-24 hours straight without an Oil cooler?
Champ penalizes oil coolers.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by the5 View Post
Thank you guys for all the replies, I have contacted most of you on Facebook to get your experiences personally.

Now next question, Is is possible to run an S2k for 7-24 hours straight without an Oil cooler?
Champ penalizes oil coolers.
I'd take the penalty so ensure finishing. Has anyone added oil capacity w/o necessarily calling it a "cooler"?
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:39 PM
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On race tires you are going to have fuel starvation at a half tank, so some sort of fix for fuel would be required, whether a hydramat, surge tank, or new fuel cell.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:36 AM
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Hello all. I used to race in ChumpCar back in 2012-13 with a chop-top Z32. We won two races, but the car was penalized too heavily and I largely stopped driving. I'm looking to go ChampCar racing again with either an NC Miata or 2006+ S2000 (the VPI tables exclude AP2s, but ChampCar management has told me any model year is fine).

To lap without penalties, an S2000 would need to run the stock oil cooler and radiator. Hoods can be vented in ChumpCar. If this is enough to keep coolant temps around 190F, I think oil temps will be fine. My F22C1-powered Miata runs the stock oil cooler, and with the lower-revving AP2 engine oil temps usually stabilize at 265F on hot days. While this is a bit higher than I'd like, oil analysis hasn't indicated it's a problem.

I'm mostly worried about two things: brakes and handling.

I've never owned an S2000, but all the ones I've driven (AP1s and 2s) have been very twitchy at the limit. This isn't a good trait when racing for 12+ hours at a time. People are going to do stupid things in front of you, sometimes when it's raining and you're really tired. You really need a very predictable, driftable car. Is it possible to get this out of a stockish S2000? Keep in mind most free mods can be done without penalty, like turning the top hats upside down to increase rear bump travel. You may also be able to drill some new holes for the rear tie rods to affect bump steer, and shim the steering rack.

On the brakes, would the stock rotors even be an option? I don't think they'd crack on a pit stop cooldown, but might they crack on an extended stop where some wrenching was done? The rear rotors, being solid, strike me as a serious threat to rear wheel bearing life.

We've been looking for a good brake swap with different front and rear rotors that fits within the 2x rule, but haven't found anything.

Thanks for any help.

Last edited by Grant B; 11-05-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant B View Post
Hello all. I used to race in ChumpCar back in 2012-13 with a chop-top Z32. We won two races, but the car was penalized too heavily and I largely stopped driving. I'm looking to go ChampCar racing again with either an NC Miata or 2006+ S2000 (the VPI tables exclude AP2s, but ChampCar management has told me any model year is fine).

To lap without penalties, an S2000 would need to run the stock oil cooler and radiator. Hoods can be vented in ChumpCar. If this is enough to keep coolant temps around 190F, I think oil temps will be fine. My F22C1-powered Miata runs the stock oil cooler, and with the lower-revving AP2 engine oil temps usually stabilize at 265F on hot days. While this is a bit higher than I'd like, oil analysis hasn't indicated it's a problem.

I'm mostly worried about two things: brakes and handling.

I've never owned an S2000, but all the ones I've driven (AP1s and 2s) have been very twitchy at the limit. This isn't a good trait when racing for 12+ hours at a time. People are going to do stupid things in front of you, sometimes when it's raining and you're really tired. You really need a very predictable, driftable car. Is it possible to get this out of a stockish S2000? Keep in mind most free mods can be done without penalty, like turning the top hats upside down to increase rear bump travel. You may also be able to drill some new holes for the rear tie rods to affect bump steer, and shim the steering rack.

On the brakes, would the stock rotors even be an option? I don't think they'd crack on a pit stop cooldown, but might they crack on an extended stop where some wrenching was done? The rear rotors, being solid, strike me as a serious threat to rear wheel bearing life.

We've been looking for a good brake swap with different front and rear rotors that fits within the 2x rule, but haven't found anything.

Thanks for any help.
what are your plans to get near 2 hours of fuel into it?

i would go Miata, abundant parts locally avail and abundant teams in the paddock to lean on.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by miamirice View Post
what are your plans to get near 2 hours of fuel into it?
No plans to. Make it up with lap times. An extra two stops in a 14 hours race only requires 1.5% faster laps to make up for, and that's assuming you don't do any pitting during full course cautions.

Originally Posted by miamirice View Post
i would go Miata, abundant parts locally avail and abundant teams in the paddock to lean on.
The parts cost and availability is nice, but if you need an odd part during a race you've probably already lost. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant B View Post
No plans to. Make it up with lap times. An extra two stops in a 14 hours race only requires 1.5% faster laps to make up for, and that's assuming you don't do any pitting during full course cautions.

The parts cost and availability is nice, but if you need an odd part during a race you've probably already lost. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

an extra 2 stops in chump is 10 minutes. So if you are going to push your car harder, burn more fuel and tires then you run 3 seconds a lap faster, That’s 20 laps for 1 minute make up, or 200 laps to make up for those 10 minutes. So if your turning say a 2:30 lap that’s 500 minutes or 8 hours and 20 minutes. That’s madness. Interesting strategy. Makes far more sense to run 2-hour stints 3 seconds a lap slower and preserve the car.

You could reduce fuel stops (like Audi’s slower diesels but longer fuel stints) and be a contender to win. I don’t know anybody who wins Chumpcar that doesn’t run right at the 2-hour stint max. Our 540 could happily run Sebring at a 2:41-43 but we set our pace at 2.45 because the fuel delta and wear on bushings, tires didn’t justify.

I have always run endurance races to finish when not on the lead lap. If the car needs fixing by a part like an axle or LCA....we fix it and finish.

by the way...if you ran the original z32 chop top (silver from the Gainesville area) we have raced eachother many times. I go back to 2011 when John would come to the races, flip burgers and serve his Chumpcar wine. If you were at PBOC nightenduro in that car, we had a black 540. Our 2 chumpcars bitch slappped a whole lot of Porsche’s that night.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:55 PM
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We did the math in our Z32 years ago. It won Sebring the two times it ran there before it got pushed to EC, and could not go two hours. It was never worth it to conserve fuel as a general strategy, though it certainly was in some circumstances. e.g. stretching a stint out to pit in the rain or under yellow, or simply coasting into impassable slower traffic. We absolutely conserved the car (mostly by shifting slowly as the syncros and sliders are total junk), but that's a different story. Keep in mind if you pit during a double yellow, the penalty is much reduced.

The SC300 that wins there now is owned by a friend of mine who used to drive the Z32. He does not conserve anything. The car is basically a MKIV Supra so it won't break, and it comes stock with a 20 gallon fuel tank. It's downside is its weight, high CoG and generally not-great handling; the Z32 was a better performer. If both cars were driven flat out I think the SC would just barely win with its 2-hour stints and easier passing (due to higher speeds in the straights).

Ten minutes over 257 laps is only 2.3 seconds per lap. An S2000 could easily make that up over an SC300, or most anything else. This is mostly why I'm leaning towards the NC; does ChampCar management know what a fully prepped S2000 would do? I can't see it remaining a 500-point car.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant B View Post
We did the math in our Z32 years ago. It won Sebring the two times it ran there before it got pushed to EC, and could not go two hours. It was never worth it to conserve fuel as a general strategy, though it certainly was in some circumstances. e.g. stretching a stint out to pit in the rain or under yellow, or simply coasting into impassable slower traffic. We absolutely conserved the car (mostly by shifting slowly as the syncros and sliders are total junk), but that's a different story. Keep in mind if you pit during a double yellow, the penalty is much reduced.

The SC300 that wins there now is owned by a friend of mine who used to drive the Z32. He does not conserve anything. The car is basically a MKIV Supra so it won't break, and it comes stock with a 20 gallon fuel tank. It's downside is its weight, high CoG and generally not-great handling; the Z32 was a better performer. If both cars were driven flat out I think the SC would just barely win with its 2-hour stints and easier passing (due to higher speeds in the straights).

Ten minutes over 257 laps is only 2.3 seconds per lap. An S2000 could easily make that up over an SC300, or most anything else. This is mostly why I'm leaning towards the NC; does ChampCar management know what a fully prepped S2000 would do? I can't see it remaining a 500-point car.

the SC300 was a beautiful car. I remember it at Sebring it was a 14-hour there you guys won. We were racing with you when at the 11-hour the alternator went and it was too hot a job to do so we parked it. I think you had a lot of copy cats for the Sc300. I did the 24-hour New Year’s Eve race at Homestead and there were a couple of them. James Clay was in one built in Miami that won. We led 23.5 hours when the diff unbolted itself and was dragging. We bolted it back and finished 6 I think.

i have not done Chump in prob 4-5 years but might take my SM out for Road Atlanta or Daytona next year. I am too old and grumpy to put up with the Sebring heat/weather....it’s always in Sept.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:10 PM
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Soon to be in Champ! We will see how it does.
Also Grant I was deciding between the same two cars, But this S2000 Came up at a steal.
For the NC look at a 2.5 Swap as it will be a 50 point flat swap

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