Looking for a tow vehicle!
07-06-2017, 08:15 PM
#23
I towed a similar setup with one of your choices (that I didn't like), so I'll chime in with a wall of text. My track car was an S13 240SX (~2500 lbs) on a ~2000 lb steel open trailer. Odds and ends probably put the total trailer weight around 4600-4700 lbs - very similar to what you'll probably have.
I had an '07 V6 RWD 4Runner, and put on a weight distributing hitch (this really helped stability), but the trailer still moved the 4Runner around quite a bit because the ball of the hitch is pretty far from the rear wheels. Typical half ton truck type distances, but the 4Runner has a smaller wheelbase and is lighter. Also, the V6 returned about 18-19 mpg in daily driving, and was pretty gutless at all times. The transmission logic made it even worse because it just refused to ever drop down 1 gear, you'd have to be at 80%+ throttle before it'd downshift 2 gears and be screaming near the low redline and making no power. Just frustrating to live with on a daily basis, and I really tried to make myself like it over 3 years. I averaged 13-13.5 mpg towing the trailer and keeping the speed down below 70 (speed limits around here on interstates are 75, so this is borderline dangerous getting blown away by semis etc.). Above 70 and it was more like 11-12 mpg. Don't believe the computer MPG meter - thing lies by 10-15% high on all of them. A Tacoma is going to tow about the same (not well).
I test drove an early V8 4Runner, and while it made a little more torque than the later VVTi V6, it wasn't that apparent, especially above 2k RPM. I thought about a later V8, but honestly couldn't find one even remotely reasonably priced. I would have picked up a GX470 for the prices V8 4Runners were going for if I was set on that package honestly. A 3rd gen 4Runner is glacially slow unloaded. Put a 4500 lb trailer behind it and you'll be foot to the floor and merging freeways at like 40-45 mph, or losing speed uphill with the engine screaming for mercy. Do that a few times and you flat out will hate towing.
I picked up a 2011 BMW X5 35i after that, and man, this thing towed the trailer WAY better. The N55 single turbo 3L engine makes gobs of torque everywhere, pulls hard to redline, and the 8 speed trans means you can dial in just the right amount of revs to pull your trailer in manual mode. The rear wheel to ball distance is much shorter (like 18-20" shorter or so), so the trailer doesn't move the vehicle around near as much. No weight distributing hitch (per manual), but still loads more stable. Towing MPG at 75 mph average on same stretch was about 14.5-15 mpg (20-21 mpg daily driving), so even though it takes premium gas, the cost is less at the same speed and the turbo engine has WAY more torque everywhere. Handling with or without the trailer is lightyears better than the 4Runner, like drive circles around it better. Brakes are better (and yes, my 4Runner was a sport with the big brakes), engine sounds sweeter, interior is obviously way nicer - just a much much nicer class car in every aspect EXCEPT the Germany reliability. Which is honestly not the end of the world on the I6. It's mostly the usual gaskets and whatnot, very few really catastrophic things that didn't get a recall or extended warranty via BMW (breaking front driveshafts was a big one for a while, BMW recalled them). Much nicer daily driver vs. a 4Runner, which is what I'd emphasize when shopping.
There's also a 3L turbo diesel engine, but the emission system is crap, and the N55 is much more common, and a faster engine if you rev it out at all. The N63 twin turbo 4.4L V8 is overkill and horribly unreliable. It's fast as crap, and will return 14-15 mpg unloaded though if that's something you'd want to do. It'd outdrag an unloaded 4th gen 4Runner with a 4500 lb trailer attached to it easily... hah You can also throw a tune on any of the above and make way more power for not a ton of $$$.
I also considered a Cayenne, but the cost of Porsche parts really turned me off. Plus the N55 powered X5 is way faster than the NA 3.6L Cayenne is of the similar vintage. They're rated about the same, but the N55 is way underrated, and makes a much flatter powerband.
Overall, I'd forget the idea of a manual in an SUV that can tow. It won't exactly be a very "engaging" driving experience, even if you're rowing your own gears, and you'll limit yourself to some really oddball choices that just won't tow that well IMO.
The Volvo is kinda a cool choice, but I don't believe the V8s were that common nor very reliable from the research I was doing. I didn't seriously consider it in my search though, just a little reading to let me know it probably wasn't what I wanted.
I drove my 4Runner for 3 years, and while I really kept it in great shape (new shocks, maintenance all around etc.), I wouldn't call it really reliable, nor would I call it worth it for what I quickly sold it for (about $1200 less than I paid for it 3 years and 45k mi younger). My dad has one that he loves and has been really reliable, but mine had all sorts of annoying (seat motors dying, occasional misfire code that didn't seem to have a cause) to PITA problems (rear diff pinion bearing loses preload and destroys itself, found HUNDREDS of used ones with the same problem when I looked for a replacement, V6 headgaskets, V8 exhaust manifolds etc.).
I had an '07 V6 RWD 4Runner, and put on a weight distributing hitch (this really helped stability), but the trailer still moved the 4Runner around quite a bit because the ball of the hitch is pretty far from the rear wheels. Typical half ton truck type distances, but the 4Runner has a smaller wheelbase and is lighter. Also, the V6 returned about 18-19 mpg in daily driving, and was pretty gutless at all times. The transmission logic made it even worse because it just refused to ever drop down 1 gear, you'd have to be at 80%+ throttle before it'd downshift 2 gears and be screaming near the low redline and making no power. Just frustrating to live with on a daily basis, and I really tried to make myself like it over 3 years. I averaged 13-13.5 mpg towing the trailer and keeping the speed down below 70 (speed limits around here on interstates are 75, so this is borderline dangerous getting blown away by semis etc.). Above 70 and it was more like 11-12 mpg. Don't believe the computer MPG meter - thing lies by 10-15% high on all of them. A Tacoma is going to tow about the same (not well).
I test drove an early V8 4Runner, and while it made a little more torque than the later VVTi V6, it wasn't that apparent, especially above 2k RPM. I thought about a later V8, but honestly couldn't find one even remotely reasonably priced. I would have picked up a GX470 for the prices V8 4Runners were going for if I was set on that package honestly. A 3rd gen 4Runner is glacially slow unloaded. Put a 4500 lb trailer behind it and you'll be foot to the floor and merging freeways at like 40-45 mph, or losing speed uphill with the engine screaming for mercy. Do that a few times and you flat out will hate towing.
I picked up a 2011 BMW X5 35i after that, and man, this thing towed the trailer WAY better. The N55 single turbo 3L engine makes gobs of torque everywhere, pulls hard to redline, and the 8 speed trans means you can dial in just the right amount of revs to pull your trailer in manual mode. The rear wheel to ball distance is much shorter (like 18-20" shorter or so), so the trailer doesn't move the vehicle around near as much. No weight distributing hitch (per manual), but still loads more stable. Towing MPG at 75 mph average on same stretch was about 14.5-15 mpg (20-21 mpg daily driving), so even though it takes premium gas, the cost is less at the same speed and the turbo engine has WAY more torque everywhere. Handling with or without the trailer is lightyears better than the 4Runner, like drive circles around it better. Brakes are better (and yes, my 4Runner was a sport with the big brakes), engine sounds sweeter, interior is obviously way nicer - just a much much nicer class car in every aspect EXCEPT the Germany reliability. Which is honestly not the end of the world on the I6. It's mostly the usual gaskets and whatnot, very few really catastrophic things that didn't get a recall or extended warranty via BMW (breaking front driveshafts was a big one for a while, BMW recalled them). Much nicer daily driver vs. a 4Runner, which is what I'd emphasize when shopping.
There's also a 3L turbo diesel engine, but the emission system is crap, and the N55 is much more common, and a faster engine if you rev it out at all. The N63 twin turbo 4.4L V8 is overkill and horribly unreliable. It's fast as crap, and will return 14-15 mpg unloaded though if that's something you'd want to do. It'd outdrag an unloaded 4th gen 4Runner with a 4500 lb trailer attached to it easily... hah You can also throw a tune on any of the above and make way more power for not a ton of $$$.
I also considered a Cayenne, but the cost of Porsche parts really turned me off. Plus the N55 powered X5 is way faster than the NA 3.6L Cayenne is of the similar vintage. They're rated about the same, but the N55 is way underrated, and makes a much flatter powerband.
Overall, I'd forget the idea of a manual in an SUV that can tow. It won't exactly be a very "engaging" driving experience, even if you're rowing your own gears, and you'll limit yourself to some really oddball choices that just won't tow that well IMO.
The Volvo is kinda a cool choice, but I don't believe the V8s were that common nor very reliable from the research I was doing. I didn't seriously consider it in my search though, just a little reading to let me know it probably wasn't what I wanted.
I drove my 4Runner for 3 years, and while I really kept it in great shape (new shocks, maintenance all around etc.), I wouldn't call it really reliable, nor would I call it worth it for what I quickly sold it for (about $1200 less than I paid for it 3 years and 45k mi younger). My dad has one that he loves and has been really reliable, but mine had all sorts of annoying (seat motors dying, occasional misfire code that didn't seem to have a cause) to PITA problems (rear diff pinion bearing loses preload and destroys itself, found HUNDREDS of used ones with the same problem when I looked for a replacement, V6 headgaskets, V8 exhaust manifolds etc.).
07-06-2017, 09:29 PM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
I towed a similar setup with one of your choices (that I didn't like), so I'll chime in with a wall of text. My track car was an S13 240SX (~2500 lbs) on a ~2000 lb steel open trailer. Odds and ends probably put the total trailer weight around 4600-4700 lbs - very similar to what you'll probably have.
I had an '07 V6 RWD 4Runner, and put on a weight distributing hitch (this really helped stability), but the trailer still moved the 4Runner around quite a bit because the ball of the hitch is pretty far from the rear wheels. Typical half ton truck type distances, but the 4Runner has a smaller wheelbase and is lighter. Also, the V6 returned about 18-19 mpg in daily driving, and was pretty gutless at all times. The transmission logic made it even worse because it just refused to ever drop down 1 gear, you'd have to be at 80%+ throttle before it'd downshift 2 gears and be screaming near the low redline and making no power. Just frustrating to live with on a daily basis, and I really tried to make myself like it over 3 years. I averaged 13-13.5 mpg towing the trailer and keeping the speed down below 70 (speed limits around here on interstates are 75, so this is borderline dangerous getting blown away by semis etc.). Above 70 and it was more like 11-12 mpg. Don't believe the computer MPG meter - thing lies by 10-15% high on all of them. A Tacoma is going to tow about the same (not well).
I test drove an early V8 4Runner, and while it made a little more torque than the later VVTi V6, it wasn't that apparent, especially above 2k RPM. I thought about a later V8, but honestly couldn't find one even remotely reasonably priced. I would have picked up a GX470 for the prices V8 4Runners were going for if I was set on that package honestly. A 3rd gen 4Runner is glacially slow unloaded. Put a 4500 lb trailer behind it and you'll be foot to the floor and merging freeways at like 40-45 mph, or losing speed uphill with the engine screaming for mercy. Do that a few times and you flat out will hate towing.
I picked up a 2011 BMW X5 35i after that, and man, this thing towed the trailer WAY better. The N55 single turbo 3L engine makes gobs of torque everywhere, pulls hard to redline, and the 8 speed trans means you can dial in just the right amount of revs to pull your trailer in manual mode. The rear wheel to ball distance is much shorter (like 18-20" shorter or so), so the trailer doesn't move the vehicle around near as much. No weight distributing hitch (per manual), but still loads more stable. Towing MPG at 75 mph average on same stretch was about 14.5-15 mpg (20-21 mpg daily driving), so even though it takes premium gas, the cost is less at the same speed and the turbo engine has WAY more torque everywhere. Handling with or without the trailer is lightyears better than the 4Runner, like drive circles around it better. Brakes are better (and yes, my 4Runner was a sport with the big brakes), engine sounds sweeter, interior is obviously way nicer - just a much much nicer class car in every aspect EXCEPT the Germany reliability. Which is honestly not the end of the world on the I6. It's mostly the usual gaskets and whatnot, very few really catastrophic things that didn't get a recall or extended warranty via BMW (breaking front driveshafts was a big one for a while, BMW recalled them). Much nicer daily driver vs. a 4Runner, which is what I'd emphasize when shopping.
There's also a 3L turbo diesel engine, but the emission system is crap, and the N55 is much more common, and a faster engine if you rev it out at all. The N63 twin turbo 4.4L V8 is overkill and horribly unreliable. It's fast as crap, and will return 14-15 mpg unloaded though if that's something you'd want to do. It'd outdrag an unloaded 4th gen 4Runner with a 4500 lb trailer attached to it easily... hah You can also throw a tune on any of the above and make way more power for not a ton of $$$.
I also considered a Cayenne, but the cost of Porsche parts really turned me off. Plus the N55 powered X5 is way faster than the NA 3.6L Cayenne is of the similar vintage. They're rated about the same, but the N55 is way underrated, and makes a much flatter powerband.
Overall, I'd forget the idea of a manual in an SUV that can tow. It won't exactly be a very "engaging" driving experience, even if you're rowing your own gears, and you'll limit yourself to some really oddball choices that just won't tow that well IMO.
The Volvo is kinda a cool choice, but I don't believe the V8s were that common nor very reliable from the research I was doing. I didn't seriously consider it in my search though, just a little reading to let me know it probably wasn't what I wanted.
I drove my 4Runner for 3 years, and while I really kept it in great shape (new shocks, maintenance all around etc.), I wouldn't call it really reliable, nor would I call it worth it for what I quickly sold it for (about $1200 less than I paid for it 3 years and 45k mi younger). My dad has one that he loves and has been really reliable, but mine had all sorts of annoying (seat motors dying, occasional misfire code that didn't seem to have a cause) to PITA problems (rear diff pinion bearing loses preload and destroys itself, found HUNDREDS of used ones with the same problem when I looked for a replacement, V6 headgaskets, V8 exhaust manifolds etc.).
I had an '07 V6 RWD 4Runner, and put on a weight distributing hitch (this really helped stability), but the trailer still moved the 4Runner around quite a bit because the ball of the hitch is pretty far from the rear wheels. Typical half ton truck type distances, but the 4Runner has a smaller wheelbase and is lighter. Also, the V6 returned about 18-19 mpg in daily driving, and was pretty gutless at all times. The transmission logic made it even worse because it just refused to ever drop down 1 gear, you'd have to be at 80%+ throttle before it'd downshift 2 gears and be screaming near the low redline and making no power. Just frustrating to live with on a daily basis, and I really tried to make myself like it over 3 years. I averaged 13-13.5 mpg towing the trailer and keeping the speed down below 70 (speed limits around here on interstates are 75, so this is borderline dangerous getting blown away by semis etc.). Above 70 and it was more like 11-12 mpg. Don't believe the computer MPG meter - thing lies by 10-15% high on all of them. A Tacoma is going to tow about the same (not well).
I test drove an early V8 4Runner, and while it made a little more torque than the later VVTi V6, it wasn't that apparent, especially above 2k RPM. I thought about a later V8, but honestly couldn't find one even remotely reasonably priced. I would have picked up a GX470 for the prices V8 4Runners were going for if I was set on that package honestly. A 3rd gen 4Runner is glacially slow unloaded. Put a 4500 lb trailer behind it and you'll be foot to the floor and merging freeways at like 40-45 mph, or losing speed uphill with the engine screaming for mercy. Do that a few times and you flat out will hate towing.
I picked up a 2011 BMW X5 35i after that, and man, this thing towed the trailer WAY better. The N55 single turbo 3L engine makes gobs of torque everywhere, pulls hard to redline, and the 8 speed trans means you can dial in just the right amount of revs to pull your trailer in manual mode. The rear wheel to ball distance is much shorter (like 18-20" shorter or so), so the trailer doesn't move the vehicle around near as much. No weight distributing hitch (per manual), but still loads more stable. Towing MPG at 75 mph average on same stretch was about 14.5-15 mpg (20-21 mpg daily driving), so even though it takes premium gas, the cost is less at the same speed and the turbo engine has WAY more torque everywhere. Handling with or without the trailer is lightyears better than the 4Runner, like drive circles around it better. Brakes are better (and yes, my 4Runner was a sport with the big brakes), engine sounds sweeter, interior is obviously way nicer - just a much much nicer class car in every aspect EXCEPT the Germany reliability. Which is honestly not the end of the world on the I6. It's mostly the usual gaskets and whatnot, very few really catastrophic things that didn't get a recall or extended warranty via BMW (breaking front driveshafts was a big one for a while, BMW recalled them). Much nicer daily driver vs. a 4Runner, which is what I'd emphasize when shopping.
There's also a 3L turbo diesel engine, but the emission system is crap, and the N55 is much more common, and a faster engine if you rev it out at all. The N63 twin turbo 4.4L V8 is overkill and horribly unreliable. It's fast as crap, and will return 14-15 mpg unloaded though if that's something you'd want to do. It'd outdrag an unloaded 4th gen 4Runner with a 4500 lb trailer attached to it easily... hah You can also throw a tune on any of the above and make way more power for not a ton of $$$.
I also considered a Cayenne, but the cost of Porsche parts really turned me off. Plus the N55 powered X5 is way faster than the NA 3.6L Cayenne is of the similar vintage. They're rated about the same, but the N55 is way underrated, and makes a much flatter powerband.
Overall, I'd forget the idea of a manual in an SUV that can tow. It won't exactly be a very "engaging" driving experience, even if you're rowing your own gears, and you'll limit yourself to some really oddball choices that just won't tow that well IMO.
The Volvo is kinda a cool choice, but I don't believe the V8s were that common nor very reliable from the research I was doing. I didn't seriously consider it in my search though, just a little reading to let me know it probably wasn't what I wanted.
I drove my 4Runner for 3 years, and while I really kept it in great shape (new shocks, maintenance all around etc.), I wouldn't call it really reliable, nor would I call it worth it for what I quickly sold it for (about $1200 less than I paid for it 3 years and 45k mi younger). My dad has one that he loves and has been really reliable, but mine had all sorts of annoying (seat motors dying, occasional misfire code that didn't seem to have a cause) to PITA problems (rear diff pinion bearing loses preload and destroys itself, found HUNDREDS of used ones with the same problem when I looked for a replacement, V6 headgaskets, V8 exhaust manifolds etc.).
The Cayenne S or GTS is a strong favorite currently but I've yet to drive one. The perfect one would be an '08+ GTS with the 6-speed, at least in theory. I'm certainly not dead-set on the manual trans. Both my wife and I DD manual trans cars and we both find it very enjoyable, so it's a plus but not a deal-breaker. I'm curious on how a Cayenne (or Touareg) holds up to towing 6000lb+ in an enclosed trailer. The numbers and the internet seem to say it can handle it but I'm curious if anyone has experience here doing so.
Also, any experience with the reliability of these things? I'm reading up as much as I can.
Thanks for all the responses so far!
07-07-2017, 05:09 AM
#25
Mine is a 2006 S. I tow a steel/open 20' (2400lbs) + car (heaviest 2800lbs). So let's say 5200 lbs + a couple hundred pounds in truck for tools. If it's not set up with a brake controller get the RF style. The German trucks don't like aftermarket trailer brakes hardwires typically.
Power is never an issue. The v8 when on variable valve mode feels like it could drag race. When I pull an aluminum trailer with spec miata I really don't notice it's back there. I tend to set cruise 75ish in flat Florida. If you read the rennlist forums there are plenty of guys pulling enclosed trailers to track days. The truck is great as a daily. Agile and solid.
If if I had the space I would get an enclosed with a pickup....no question. I have what I have because I live in a very densely populated area and storage cost what apartment rents go for in much of the country.
2008+ is a good choice. 06 and earlier have coolant pipe issue that needs fixing (under the intake manifold ) and the cardan shaft will go early. Not sure I would do a GTS (I hate the seats and the ride height not optimal for towing). 11+ you need to research as well, there are some issues with aluminum bolts failing I think in the timing gear). Many owners say spend a little more and get the turbo.
If you dont need daily handling/curb appeal get a Toyota Sequoia. If you get the ceyenne it will likely be a love/hate. I have had mine 4 years. No serous stuff has gone wrong but again, it's classic German stuff. I bought many tools to work on this thing (triple squares, E sockets).
Power is never an issue. The v8 when on variable valve mode feels like it could drag race. When I pull an aluminum trailer with spec miata I really don't notice it's back there. I tend to set cruise 75ish in flat Florida. If you read the rennlist forums there are plenty of guys pulling enclosed trailers to track days. The truck is great as a daily. Agile and solid.
If if I had the space I would get an enclosed with a pickup....no question. I have what I have because I live in a very densely populated area and storage cost what apartment rents go for in much of the country.
2008+ is a good choice. 06 and earlier have coolant pipe issue that needs fixing (under the intake manifold ) and the cardan shaft will go early. Not sure I would do a GTS (I hate the seats and the ride height not optimal for towing). 11+ you need to research as well, there are some issues with aluminum bolts failing I think in the timing gear). Many owners say spend a little more and get the turbo.
If you dont need daily handling/curb appeal get a Toyota Sequoia. If you get the ceyenne it will likely be a love/hate. I have had mine 4 years. No serous stuff has gone wrong but again, it's classic German stuff. I bought many tools to work on this thing (triple squares, E sockets).
07-07-2017, 08:16 AM
#26
I towed the S2k on a steel trailer with my 07 Ridgeline for a few years. Brakes and stability are excellent, power is just adequate. I now have a Aluma single axle car trailer, which is awesome. Once you have the tongue weight dialed its very stable. My whole tow rig is just under 4k trailer/car. I will be towing it with a 2010 MDX. I have towed my 3k camper so far with the X and it did great. Just like the Ridgeline except more power and gears. I have not noticed the shorter wheelbase.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
07-07-2017, 10:41 AM
#27
As much as driving a manual is enjoyable, towing with one sounds completely unpleasant.
I tow with an Expedition now, and I'm really happy with it, but I think you've already ruled out something that big so I won't go on about it...
I tow with an Expedition now, and I'm really happy with it, but I think you've already ruled out something that big so I won't go on about it...
07-07-2017, 11:24 AM
#28
That's what I'm talking about, thank you!
The Cayenne S or GTS is a strong favorite currently but I've yet to drive one. The perfect one would be an '08+ GTS with the 6-speed, at least in theory. I'm certainly not dead-set on the manual trans. Both my wife and I DD manual trans cars and we both find it very enjoyable, so it's a plus but not a deal-breaker. I'm curious on how a Cayenne (or Touareg) holds up to towing 6000lb+ in an enclosed trailer. The numbers and the internet seem to say it can handle it but I'm curious if anyone has experience here doing so.
Also, any experience with the reliability of these things? I'm reading up as much as I can.
Thanks for all the responses so far!
The Cayenne S or GTS is a strong favorite currently but I've yet to drive one. The perfect one would be an '08+ GTS with the 6-speed, at least in theory. I'm certainly not dead-set on the manual trans. Both my wife and I DD manual trans cars and we both find it very enjoyable, so it's a plus but not a deal-breaker. I'm curious on how a Cayenne (or Touareg) holds up to towing 6000lb+ in an enclosed trailer. The numbers and the internet seem to say it can handle it but I'm curious if anyone has experience here doing so.
Also, any experience with the reliability of these things? I'm reading up as much as I can.
Thanks for all the responses so far!
You could probably do an enclosed trailer with a Cayenne, I've seen others do it, but honestly at that point, I'd be looking at one of the more capable half ton pickups with a turbo. Much cheaper, and I think you'd be really pushing the limits on the Cayenne's towing with a big enclosed just from a wheelbase perspective. The short rear overhang helps, but a 20'+ enclosed has A LOT of surface area to catch the wind. Plus I'd personally be freaked out I'd burn up the trans and be out $15k+ to fix it.
A 3.5 Ecoboost F150 will do an enclosed no problem. Again, turbos work GREAT with towing, so I'd probably shy away from an NA engine unless it had a lot of displacement. You really want something that just has a big mountain of torque you can ride, as it can take a LONG time to wind out a heavily loaded trailer pulled by a highly strung NA engine (like say a J35 Honda engine). It might have good peak numbers, but getting to that peak is a different story with so much weight to pull.
I towed the S2k on a steel trailer with my 07 Ridgeline for a few years. Brakes and stability are excellent, power is just adequate. I now have a Aluma single axle car trailer, which is awesome. Once you have the tongue weight dialed its very stable. My whole tow rig is just under 4k trailer/car. I will be towing it with a 2010 MDX. I have towed my 3k camper so far with the X and it did great. Just like the Ridgeline except more power and gears. I have not noticed the shorter wheelbase.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
Plus the Pilots and Ridgelines have had some transmission issues when pushed hard while towing, so it wouldn't exactly make me feel easy knowing you're pushing the thing to the max at all times.
I almost bought the last of the Pathfinder body on frame vehicles instead of the 4Runner, but I absolutely hated the seating position. Very bolt upright, with the pedals feeling like they're more straight down rather than out in front of you. It reminded me of an old truck in that regard, and not in a good way. It also felt very floppy and uncontrolled in its body motions, so I can't imagine it'd feel great towing out of the box. You could get the 5.6L VK56 in a couple of years of it, but they're pretty rare and absolutely suck on gas mileage (12-14 mpg is what I was seeing I think!). That'd have plenty of power, but not sure I'd want that sort of gas mileage on a daily basis. The VQ40 is probably ok on power if you're fine with some more revs, but the Pathfinder itself is pretty heavy. It won't have excess grunt with the V6.
I agree with your assessment on the 4Runners being too expensive. I happened upon one that was a decent deal with a few minor issues, but otherwise it was off my list. I liked the driving position more than the Pathfinder except for it being REALLY tight on headroom (I'm 6'3").
07-07-2017, 11:38 AM
#29
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Mine is a 2006 S. I tow a steel/open 20' (2400lbs) + car (heaviest 2800lbs). So let's say 5200 lbs + a couple hundred pounds in truck for tools. If it's not set up with a brake controller get the RF style. The German trucks don't like aftermarket trailer brakes hardwires typically.
Power is never an issue. The v8 when on variable valve mode feels like it could drag race. When I pull an aluminum trailer with spec miata I really don't notice it's back there. I tend to set cruise 75ish in flat Florida. If you read the rennlist forums there are plenty of guys pulling enclosed trailers to track days. The truck is great as a daily. Agile and solid.
If if I had the space I would get an enclosed with a pickup....no question. I have what I have because I live in a very densely populated area and storage cost what apartment rents go for in much of the country.
2008+ is a good choice. 06 and earlier have coolant pipe issue that needs fixing (under the intake manifold ) and the cardan shaft will go early. Not sure I would do a GTS (I hate the seats and the ride height not optimal for towing). 11+ you need to research as well, there are some issues with aluminum bolts failing I think in the timing gear). Many owners say spend a little more and get the turbo.
If you dont need daily handling/curb appeal get a Toyota Sequoia. If you get the ceyenne it will likely be a love/hate. I have had mine 4 years. No serous stuff has gone wrong but again, it's classic German stuff. I bought many tools to work on this thing (triple squares, E sockets).
Power is never an issue. The v8 when on variable valve mode feels like it could drag race. When I pull an aluminum trailer with spec miata I really don't notice it's back there. I tend to set cruise 75ish in flat Florida. If you read the rennlist forums there are plenty of guys pulling enclosed trailers to track days. The truck is great as a daily. Agile and solid.
If if I had the space I would get an enclosed with a pickup....no question. I have what I have because I live in a very densely populated area and storage cost what apartment rents go for in much of the country.
2008+ is a good choice. 06 and earlier have coolant pipe issue that needs fixing (under the intake manifold ) and the cardan shaft will go early. Not sure I would do a GTS (I hate the seats and the ride height not optimal for towing). 11+ you need to research as well, there are some issues with aluminum bolts failing I think in the timing gear). Many owners say spend a little more and get the turbo.
If you dont need daily handling/curb appeal get a Toyota Sequoia. If you get the ceyenne it will likely be a love/hate. I have had mine 4 years. No serous stuff has gone wrong but again, it's classic German stuff. I bought many tools to work on this thing (triple squares, E sockets).
FWIW, I'm working on an overall budget of about $25k for tow vehicle and trailer (plus taxes, rego, hardware for towing, etc.).
I towed the S2k on a steel trailer with my 07 Ridgeline for a few years. Brakes and stability are excellent, power is just adequate. I now have a Aluma single axle car trailer, which is awesome. Once you have the tongue weight dialed its very stable. My whole tow rig is just under 4k trailer/car. I will be towing it with a 2010 MDX. I have towed my 3k camper so far with the X and it did great. Just like the Ridgeline except more power and gears. I have not noticed the shorter wheelbase.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
I would recommend the Ridgeline/MDX/Pilot for your level of towing.
I like the Xterra, but I would not tow a car. Trucks and SUVs that are light duty or mid-size with solid rear axles don't seem to have the stability as a well designed IRS. Because of that I would go with the 08-12 Pathfinder which has IRS. The Nissan VQ40 or V8 is a great engine for pulling. As far as Toyota, I seriously looked at 4Runners and GX470s. I came away with the conclusion they are overpriced. The market is inflated by rabid owner loyalty that inflates the price beyond the actual delta of quality. Summed up, a 4runner is a better quality vehicle than a Pathfinder. However its not enough to justify the market premium the Toyota fetches. If you want a laugh, check out what those FJ Cruisers pull in on the used market.
I love the extra capacity of something like an Expedition but I just don't think I (or more importantly my wife) could live with it as a daily in the SF Bay Area. I haven't found anything else that competes with the Cayenne for overall towing gusto plus daily driver comfort and fun but I'm all ears!
07-07-2017, 11:52 AM
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DefSport, good point on the towing hardware. I am budgeting for it. In a way, I'd like to get vehicle without a hitch as that would guarantee that the previous owner didn't tow with it, obviously unless the hitch was removed at some point.