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Moroso weld in baffle with trap door - anyone used it?

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Moroso weld in baffle with trap door - anyone used it?

 
Old 01-20-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 06Estukay View Post
The thermal expansion of two or more mated parts would be carefully analyzed when determining the flange thickness, bolt diameters, and bolt spacing. Thousands of an inch here and there can add up quick.

Also, have you seen the oem pan? It's a structural piece. Can you prove that your sheet metal canton pan is as strong or stronger?

P.s. Do you work for Canton? Your wording suggests that you do.
With all the webbing and ribs on the oem pan, it definitely is a structural part of the engine. And before this canton thing came about, I recall others saying the same exact thing beings it's part of the bellhousing/trans mounting and support. I also recall claims that the trap doors fall apart but yet now since a new pan has most likely trap doors, those don't fall apart now. Not to mention the coung capability of the fins on the oem pan. Just saying...
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 06Estukay View Post
I still wouldn't use a dissimilar material for the oil pan, but that's just me. FYI, I have a few years of experience designing and engineering valves for the nuclear power generation sector.

The thermal expansion of two or more mated parts would be carefully analyzed when determining the flange thickness, bolt diameters, and bolt spacing. Thousands of an inch here and there can add up quick.

Also, have you seen the oem pan? It's a structural piece. Can you prove that your sheet metal canton pan is as strong or stronger?

P.s. Do you work for Canton? Your wording suggests that you do.
Sorry, I was a little bit unclear their in my quotes from Canton.

First, no I don't work for Canton.You should take a read to of the baffled oil pan thread. I'm simply the guy who started the ball rolling of getting enough interest from S2ki members in getting Canton to design and make a quality, road race proven baffled oil pan. They are in preproduction now and over 50 guys have put deposits down. I'm just really excited that we've finally got a product that hopefully will save a lot of motors from oil starvation.

The quotes were from two different questions which made things confusing. Lots and lots of people, including experienced welders have chimed in on the thread. And the consensus is the same as yours. It is indeed very difficult to weld two different unknown pieces of Al together.

The thermal expansion quotes were the answer to a question somebody had of what effect is there of mounting a steel pan to an Al block. The answer being that the differences in thermal expansion between the two metals is insignificant in that application. In a welding application it, of course, would never be done.

The OEM pan is strong of course. The Canton pan will be very strong as well. They've been doing this for almost 40 yrs and are the most respected name in the business. Also, I'm pretty sure the Canton pan is a cast piece, but don't quote me.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by redboost10 View Post
Originally Posted by 06Estukay' timestamp='1390286013' post='22975231
The thermal expansion of two or more mated parts would be carefully analyzed when determining the flange thickness, bolt diameters, and bolt spacing. Thousands of an inch here and there can add up quick.

Also, have you seen the oem pan? It's a structural piece. Can you prove that your sheet metal canton pan is as strong or stronger?

P.s. Do you work for Canton? Your wording suggests that you do.
With all the webbing and ribs on the oem pan, it definitely is a structural part of the engine. And before this canton thing came about, I recall others saying the same exact thing beings it's part of the bellhousing/trans mounting and support. I also recall claims that the trap doors fall apart but yet now since a new pan has most likely trap doors, those don't fall apart now. Not to mention the coung capability of the fins on the oem pan. Just saying...
Ehhh....I'm not convinced that it's a huge structural parti of the engine. The thickness and structural strength of the block the pan is mounted to far, far exceeds the pan itself. By orders of magnitude I'd say. Not to say the pan doesn't add rigidity , but I don't think much.

I've never heard of any trap doors failing. You could be referring to the often misquoted failures of the TC Designs pan (which Stratocaster discussed above), where a piece of baffle plate broke loose and covered the oil pickup resulting in oil starvation. It is commonly misunderstood as a trap door failing so much that it's almost become an urban legend lol.

And, they've discussed the cooling capabilities of the fins and the Al vs steel debate. The consensus is that in the whole picture, the fins don't add much cooling (but f you have manufacturing capabilities to add them like Honda does, then why not?), and while Al does conduct heat better than steel, it is also a small amount of cooling lost. The consensus was if you are worried about any cooling issues then get an oil cooler. it is by far more effective.

Canton will be offering an Al version of the pan soon after the preorder ends.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Stratocaster View Post
OK, I spent some time looking at this solution too. There really no online dealers listing this part. I have 5 stock oil pans sitting in storage, so for 120 I would be willing to look closer. I own a TC Designs baffled pan. It is from their second design. As far as I can tell there is really no way for it to come apart like the one we all reference (I know of one owner for sure)

Looking at the Moroso design. It is a drop in single part. So even if your welder job failed, it unit will just float in the stock pan. You would surely hear it if your guy's welds failed. Kinda like the Spoon, Mugen and other JDM pans out there with welded baffles installed. There is no way for those JDM pans to block the pickup even if all of the welds failed. So I think the risk is smaller than it was with the TC Design's initial multi part design.

The Moroso design is like the Mugen/Spoon and TC Design's rolled into one.

I personally can not wait to see the Canton pan with it is released. I think that will be great. With the extra's they are offering their customers is outstanding. Too bad I already have a cooler and Accusump installed to take advantage of either.
Thanks for chiming in!
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:48 AM
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this is not specific to this piece but I had an ebay baffle welded in a few years back. When my tuner went to tap the oilpan for the turbo he said it was flapping around in there so he re-welded it.
Kind of scary, I thought they did a decent job of welding it originally
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dan_uk View Post
this is not specific to this piece but I had an ebay baffle welded in a few years back. When my tuner went to tap the oilpan for the turbo he said it was flapping around in there so he re-welded it.
Kind of scary, I thought they did a decent job of welding it originally
Did you use a new pan when you got the baffle welded in or a used one? I noticed that blacktrax and ballade will only use new pans for their baffled pans (presumably the same goes for the JDM pans like Mugen / spoon / j's / etc)
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by afzan View Post
Originally Posted by dan_uk' timestamp='1390312103' post='22975471
this is not specific to this piece but I had an ebay baffle welded in a few years back. When my tuner went to tap the oilpan for the turbo he said it was flapping around in there so he re-welded it.
Kind of scary, I thought they did a decent job of welding it originally
Did you use a new pan when you got the baffle welded in or a used one? I noticed that blacktrax and ballade will only use new pans for their baffled pans (presumably the same goes for the JDM pans like Mugen / spoon / j's / etc)
no it was used
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:50 AM
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any more info on this baffle? this thread is full of assumption.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:24 AM
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Have had it for 15K, immediately after installing it, my blow by whet down significantly.






I'll prob pull it off next month and inspect the hinges, but it hasn't given me any issues.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:34 AM
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as for welds not sticking. learn to properly prep your surfaces.

i bought this for 20/50 bucks


i cleaned it up and it looked like this.



would have been perfect to weld.
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