My AP1 suspension project - advice appreciated!
11-28-2006, 03:31 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My AP1 suspension project - advice appreciated!
This post is regarding my suspension plans for my AP1. I searched and read up on different options. I do have some questions as well. I assume some have tried these and have relevant advice. So, if you can help answer them, I would appreciate it much! I have teh questions in Red for easier identification for those who don't want to read it all...
Primary vehicle use: This is for mainly a street car and that I don't plan on racing it soon. May see some auto-x/road-course duty, but rarely compared to street use.
Overall results desired: Improved handling and better looks
Budget: Reasonable
1) Spring/Strut combo: I have narrowed it down to the Koni Sport and Eibach pro-kit Spring kit. I have had Koni and Eibach's before and am not too fearful as both are good products .The eibach lowers the car 1" which is not too radicle and will spare my wallet from purrhasing suspension correction products. Koni is said to be softer than the stock in the rear and reduce the cars ability to oversteer per someone.
Is this a decent setup? Eibach claims that the springs will work with stock struts, but I am not so confident of this - Can anyone chime in on this as well?
Coilover fans: I did look into the PSS9. But, setting them up right (adjusting height/corner weighting) is something thats not available anywhere close to where I live and prevents me from lowering the car too much which leads to handling issues (addressed below)
Should I just be safe and go with coilovers? Is there an efficient way to lower the car correctly when coilover equipped without local talent/know-how? Can I just measure from the ground to the fender or something like that?
2) Front and Rear swaybars: Recommended or not? Just the front to compensate for oversteer in the rear, perhaps? Cusco and Muz seems to be the choice. Not the biggest bars, but should provide improvement. Please advise!
3) Misc suspension "tie-bars": Cusco seems to be the product of choice again. Also, DC sports make a decent front upper bar.
I am not big into JDM bling....
They all do about the same, right? Any specific ones recommended over the others?
4) Axle spacers: With a 1" drop, would I need axle spacers? If so, I would go with the Motorklasse kit.
Motorklasse kit seems to be working for most people! Any other recommendations?
5)Handling Aids:
Anti bumpsteer kits which I found 2 products:
5A) https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...ic=394875&st=0
Anyone get this? Where does this install and what does it do? I don't see it listed on their website anymore. Its not available anymore, is my guess. Anyone selling one? Also, how different is it from the go-fast lab rear bump-steer kit (listed below).
5B) http://www.gofastlab.com/s2ki/product.php?productid=223
I have read conflicting opinions of this product with people claiming it wore out quickly, overpriced, race kit was noisy etc. 5A seems cheaper, but currently unavailable. Maybe a GB is in order
Not sure if its worth it or not for the price? Any other handling aids to recommend?
6)Alignment:
This is the factory specs below:
Caster angle: 6 degrees
Front camber: -0.5 degrees
Rear camber: -1.5 degrees
Front toe: none
Rear toe-in (pre-04): 0.25 inches (i.e. 1/4)
Rear toe-in (04+): 0.14 inches (i.e. a bit more than 1/8)
Should I align to the same after lowering? Any recommendations on increasing camber or adjusting toe specs for better handling?I know tire wear would increase a little, but worth the handling, I guess?
Thanks for reading, apologize for long post again. Wanted to address it all at once instead of several small posts. I hope other AP1 owners with similar questions will benefit from this as well....
Drive safe, everyone!
Primary vehicle use: This is for mainly a street car and that I don't plan on racing it soon. May see some auto-x/road-course duty, but rarely compared to street use.
Overall results desired: Improved handling and better looks
Budget: Reasonable
1) Spring/Strut combo: I have narrowed it down to the Koni Sport and Eibach pro-kit Spring kit. I have had Koni and Eibach's before and am not too fearful as both are good products .The eibach lowers the car 1" which is not too radicle and will spare my wallet from purrhasing suspension correction products. Koni is said to be softer than the stock in the rear and reduce the cars ability to oversteer per someone.
Is this a decent setup? Eibach claims that the springs will work with stock struts, but I am not so confident of this - Can anyone chime in on this as well?
Coilover fans: I did look into the PSS9. But, setting them up right (adjusting height/corner weighting) is something thats not available anywhere close to where I live and prevents me from lowering the car too much which leads to handling issues (addressed below)
Should I just be safe and go with coilovers? Is there an efficient way to lower the car correctly when coilover equipped without local talent/know-how? Can I just measure from the ground to the fender or something like that?
2) Front and Rear swaybars: Recommended or not? Just the front to compensate for oversteer in the rear, perhaps? Cusco and Muz seems to be the choice. Not the biggest bars, but should provide improvement. Please advise!
3) Misc suspension "tie-bars": Cusco seems to be the product of choice again. Also, DC sports make a decent front upper bar.
I am not big into JDM bling....They all do about the same, right? Any specific ones recommended over the others?
4) Axle spacers: With a 1" drop, would I need axle spacers? If so, I would go with the Motorklasse kit.
Motorklasse kit seems to be working for most people! Any other recommendations?
5)Handling Aids:
Anti bumpsteer kits which I found 2 products:
5A) https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...ic=394875&st=0
Anyone get this? Where does this install and what does it do? I don't see it listed on their website anymore. Its not available anymore, is my guess. Anyone selling one? Also, how different is it from the go-fast lab rear bump-steer kit (listed below).
5B) http://www.gofastlab.com/s2ki/product.php?productid=223
I have read conflicting opinions of this product with people claiming it wore out quickly, overpriced, race kit was noisy etc. 5A seems cheaper, but currently unavailable. Maybe a GB is in order
Not sure if its worth it or not for the price? Any other handling aids to recommend?
6)Alignment:
This is the factory specs below:
Caster angle: 6 degrees
Front camber: -0.5 degrees
Rear camber: -1.5 degrees
Front toe: none
Rear toe-in (pre-04): 0.25 inches (i.e. 1/4)
Rear toe-in (04+): 0.14 inches (i.e. a bit more than 1/8)
Should I align to the same after lowering? Any recommendations on increasing camber or adjusting toe specs for better handling?I know tire wear would increase a little, but worth the handling, I guess?
Thanks for reading, apologize for long post again. Wanted to address it all at once instead of several small posts. I hope other AP1 owners with similar questions will benefit from this as well....
Drive safe, everyone!
11-28-2006, 08:12 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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before some of the regulars chime in with colorful language...
car handles awesome bone stock... people who say otherwise are not driving it correctly or do not understand how to drive a RWD sports car correctly... this car is very responsive... so if you tell it to do something... it just did it... be smooth with all your inputs, especially steering and throttle... just make sure you get good tires at the right sizes...
Spring/Strut combo:
The car handles awesome with the stock setup and will take you a long time on track to outdrive their performance... if you just want to safely drop the car, Koni makes good shocks... i have no information on what the Eibach Prokit does for an AP1 nor how it works with Koni...
Front and Rear swaybars:
youll hear a lot of Cusco bashing here... swaybar choices are basicly... adjustable or non-adjustable... adjustable is over $500 to i hear almost $1000 nowadays... Cusco offers one of the largest non-adjustable bar at 32mm... it is stiffer than stock and the difference can be felt...
Anti bumpsteer kits which I found 2 products:
i have the go-fast lab rear anti-bumpsteer kit... i havent had any bumpsteer problems from the front
Not sure if its worth it or not for the price? Any other handling aids to recommend?
take high performance driving courses
6)Alignment:
go with the UK alignment specs...
car handles awesome bone stock... people who say otherwise are not driving it correctly or do not understand how to drive a RWD sports car correctly... this car is very responsive... so if you tell it to do something... it just did it... be smooth with all your inputs, especially steering and throttle... just make sure you get good tires at the right sizes...
Spring/Strut combo:
The car handles awesome with the stock setup and will take you a long time on track to outdrive their performance... if you just want to safely drop the car, Koni makes good shocks... i have no information on what the Eibach Prokit does for an AP1 nor how it works with Koni...
Front and Rear swaybars:
youll hear a lot of Cusco bashing here... swaybar choices are basicly... adjustable or non-adjustable... adjustable is over $500 to i hear almost $1000 nowadays... Cusco offers one of the largest non-adjustable bar at 32mm... it is stiffer than stock and the difference can be felt...
Anti bumpsteer kits which I found 2 products:
i have the go-fast lab rear anti-bumpsteer kit... i havent had any bumpsteer problems from the front
Not sure if its worth it or not for the price? Any other handling aids to recommend?
take high performance driving courses
6)Alignment:
go with the UK alignment specs...
11-29-2006, 07:45 AM
#3
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Location: Ph-Ph-Ph-Phoenix
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^What he said. FYI, the two bumpsteer kits you referenced are for the opposite end of the car. The Motorclasse kit moves the steering rack up to realign it with the new suspension geometry of a lowered vehicle. If you aren't seriously tracking the car I don't think anything you mentioned is really necessary. If you just want to drop the car for appearance get a set of springs (Espeler, H&R, eibach, etc...) and put them on the stock shocks. If and when you feel you need something better upgrade.
11-29-2006, 11:52 AM
#4
Administrator
stiffener bars are not needed. Swaybars are a different matter. Having both be adjustable is good but not required.
I can't comment on the shocks, I have no experience with them. We don't have struts, we have double wishbones. Struts are shocks which form part of the suspension geometry designed to save space, a 2-4 if you like. Our shocks function only as shocks.
Anti-bumpsteer kit is not strictly required unless you run on tracks which require it. It makes adjusting the rear alignment easier by decoupling toe and camber controls.
I have not used axle spacers and don't know if they work as advertised.
Alignment isn't bad, decrease you f&r camber by 1 degree to -1.5/-2.5, max out the caster.
I can't comment on the shocks, I have no experience with them. We don't have struts, we have double wishbones. Struts are shocks which form part of the suspension geometry designed to save space, a 2-4 if you like. Our shocks function only as shocks.
Anti-bumpsteer kit is not strictly required unless you run on tracks which require it. It makes adjusting the rear alignment easier by decoupling toe and camber controls.
I have not used axle spacers and don't know if they work as advertised.
Alignment isn't bad, decrease you f&r camber by 1 degree to -1.5/-2.5, max out the caster.
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