ss04

I've done a ton of searching on this and there often seems to be failures for almost all brands of rear toe arms (not just on the s2000). Do you guys figure this is from improper installation or an inferior product? I know T1R recalled some of their end joints a while back and sent out replacements (I received them). If I am correct, the spacers on the wheel side are to be configured in a manner that keeps toe as neutral as possible throughout suspension travel and the arm at a similar angle to stock? Do you think over-torquing could cause fatigue failure over time?

For those that run aftermarket rear toe arms, do you replace them every few seasons? This is always a concern in the back of my mind. I've had T1R rear toe arms installed on my car now for 3 years, about 30,000 kms, and 4 track days. I'm planning on hitting the track a lot more this year with a new setup including stickier tires all around. I worry that my T1R's could be the weakest link...

Rear Toe Arm/BSK Brands (that I've found so far):

- J's racing (very expensive): http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/r...-p-149451.html

- T1R (documented failures on their initial hardware): http://www.typeoneracing.com/catalog...&cat=96&page=1

- Megan Racing (Seems to be a lot of guys running these without trouble - and they are the cheapest): http://www.meganracing.com/product_d...d=904&catid=54

- Hardrace (not a lot of guys running these, if any??): http://www.buyhardrace.com/product/h...s2000_116.html

- EVS (couldn't find much discussion of these at all): http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/Me...Code=EVS-AP-TR

- Wicked Tuning (not much info on these either): http://wickedtuning.com/honda-s2000.html

- Ikeya Formula (could not find website with these for sale)

- TC Designs (no longer available - documented failures on their initial hardware)

I'm considering replacing my T1R with a set of Hardrace. Does anyone here run hardrace themselves? I have not seen one failure.

I know some of this information is scattered throughout this site via search, but I'm hoping this thread will assist other members in the future to make a well informed decision and make sure that their rear toe arms are installed correctly.

Cam

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Relevant links I have found during my searches:

Megan BSK Discussion Thread (heated at points): https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/444...ont+camber+kit

Snapped T1R BSK (on original joints supplied by T1r not the newer versions): https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/739...011-s2kc-wsir/

TC Designs Failure: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1582205

turbo8765

I really think this is true. I've only used the Megan Racing rear toe arms. They have two castle nuts on opposite ends of the same shaft. With this design it's nearly impossible to install the arms without exceeding the recommended torque specs. I found that I had to exceed the recommended specs by around 100% to get the cotter pins to line up on both nuts. Granted, I could've played around with using washers as spacers, but I suspect I'm not the only one that doesn't do this.

I replaced my first set after ~20 track days. I used nylocks on my second set and was able to actually torque them to spec.

ss04

When you say "recommended torque specs" are you referring to OEM standards or what Megan lists?

Nylocks is a good tip thanks.

I actually went through the effort of getting in touch with Megan as I can get their rear toe arms for a great price. The only failures they have had on their rear toe arms was from improper installation. They did not specify what exactly but they seemed confident that their piece is a quality piece. I asked for a no BS truthful answer.

Blacksol

Hi I've been reading about the rear toe bars also. My Ap1 is stock ride hight, will aftermarket toe bars really help the twitch folks talk about? Also how do I know how many shims to use?

Thanks

ss04

Updated my first post with all relevant info/links I have found so far.

yml4ever

On my car the rear bumpsteer kits helps the most on tracks with bumps in the turns. Really flat tracks there's less of a difference, but tracks with bumpy turns or off-camber turns the kit makes a significant difference. The OEM suspension is designed to toe out as the suspension compresses. Out of the two black shims, I use the small one to space the joint a small amount lower than stock. I think for lowered cars, you use the bigger spacer or even both spacers for a more significant lowering of the megan joint from OEM.

ss04

With regards to debris getting into the BSK joints, some have used boots like these (Credit to member Dipstick):

http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp



"RERS-3-6PK $28.50 (+$11 "shipping")

I just threw some grease on the rod ends and put these on.

Inboard side, you'll need to trim the little center "sleeve" (grommet shape that goes around the threaded part of the rod end...otherwise it's almost impossible to get on).

Outboard side, trim the center "sleeve" and the outer "sleeves" (so they don't bunch up and pinch under the nut.

They're all warm and greasy now."

ss04

Quoting RobRob from another thread:

The Megan racing rear BSK has two settings. You put the two spacers on one way for a car dropped less than one inch, and the spacers the other way for more than 1 inch. It's not optimal but close enough. There's a pretty big difference between an AP1 with and without a Megan Racing rear bump steer kit. JFO has two S2000 race cars, one with a rear BSK and one without. He says it makes a noticeable difference in rear end stability.

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Seems like you cleared it up even more thanks.

ss04

For more precise use of spacers, quoting member Andrie:

Question:
How do you figure out how many spacers to use? Or do you use all of them? Installing those spacers a certain way will cause the contact with 16" wheel, but I think that with more spacers on the "top" the bolt will not protrude far enough to touch the wheel. Any comments?
(I'm speculating since I do not actually have the part in hand)

Answer:
You have to use a bumpsteer gauge and check it. Here is the procedure

1. Measure the distance from the center of the wheels to the fender. (static loaded height)
2. Jack the car up, take the wheels off, take the shock out. Disconnect the sway bars
3. Install the bumpsteer plate on one of the wheel
4. Jack the spindle from the bottom ball joint nut until the distance from the center to the fender equal to the measurement you did on #1.
5. Now measure the tow change if you jack the car up 0.5" at a time until 2.5" or whereabout. Do the same as you lower it firther from the static loaded height. You want as minimal tow change through out the duration. Which is very hard to do. I have to use multiple washers at .1" increments to find a desired toe curve.

This is very tedious process and take a long time.

turbo8765

I'd have to go back and look at what torque spec I used. IIRC I used the factory spec. Something like 40-44 ft-lbs.

My guess is that most people just over-tighten the hell out of it to get the castle nuts to align with the holes for the retaining pins. I had to exceed the recommended spec by ~2.2x to get things to align.

As far as setting up the shims, you are correct. I used the longacre bump steer gauge to set mine up, and it's a lot of work.

I don't have enough experience with the car prior to installing the bsk to comment on how much of a difference it made. I will say that I was able to make a big improvement in the toe curve.