Autocross: How Does RE71r Performance Change Over Time
08-21-2015, 08:31 AM
#1
Autocross: How Does RE71r Performance Change Over Time
Many race tires are best brand new or after a short scrub in. F1 qualifying is on new tires that have lost enough from one lap that a second lap is rarely attempted. The races themselves are exercises in tire conservation, with pit stops being carefully timed based on tire degradation. In some forms of racing racing uses a durometer tester to determine if their tires are hardening.
In autocrossing, tires are often used until they wear out. My question is: how much, if any, performance is lost as the tires wear out. If running a set for 10 events, would a new set be faster for the 11th event or is the worn set, which presumably would also be lighter from lost rubber, If the worn set is faster, would a shaved new set be even faster?
Has any one tested worn tires vs. new tires?
Thanks,
David
In autocrossing, tires are often used until they wear out. My question is: how much, if any, performance is lost as the tires wear out. If running a set for 10 events, would a new set be faster for the 11th event or is the worn set, which presumably would also be lighter from lost rubber, If the worn set is faster, would a shaved new set be even faster?
Has any one tested worn tires vs. new tires?
Thanks,
David
08-21-2015, 11:16 AM
#4
If you think it is silly, just answer it. I don't ask a question unless it has come up and has either ambiguous or conflicting answers. My experience says a new tire should be better. However, I've heard conflicting opinion from others more experienced than me and TTBMK no one is shaving RE71r tires. Note that the A6/A7 come with 4/32nds of thread and the RE71r and Rival S have 7/32nds, the minimum to meet the rules. I haven't heard of anyone ordering them shaved.
08-21-2015, 11:21 AM
#5
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
If you think it is silly, just answer it. I don't ask a question unless it has come up and has either ambiguous or conflicting answers. My experience says a new tire should be better. However, I've heard conflicting opinion from others more experienced than me and TTBMK no one is shaving RE71r tires. Note that the A6/A7 come with 4/32nds of thread and the RE71r and Rival S have 7/32nds, the minimum to meet the rules. I haven't heard of anyone ordering them shaved.
08-21-2015, 11:45 AM
#6
I know at least one BridgeStone contract driver has a shaved set for nats. Per their testing it doesn't seem to be any faster, but the feel is better.
Some testing has shown the RE71R to be competitive until they cord. Will they be pointy end competitive, probably not. But not many of us are pointy end drivers anyway.
08-21-2015, 12:29 PM
#7
Its highly variable across tires and compounds.
My RS3's (v1) back in the day were awesome to the last drop. I was at an event and literally felt on my afternoon runs that the grip just started going away ... looked and the fronts were nearly slicks
Before that they felt great.
My Z2 Star Specs I just took off the car started feeling like grip was dropping off quickly and they are just barely to the wear bars. Seemed like the Z2 non star specs I had last season made it further and still felt better.
I hear the RE-71R's are pretty much good to the last bit of tread, but are best until a bit before that. I also hear like others have mentioned that shaving them does not make them faster but provides better feel. Of course, if that makes a certain driver faster, then that is faster.
I have only had a bit of street driving (I dont drive the S every day .. more like once a week plus some on the weekends) and one practice event at which my co driver and I probably only got about 30 runs total, if that. We really didnt spend a lot of time in the car that day compared to most practice events. So I dont have any data personally yet.
I know a lot of people I knew that ran the "pixie dust" tires (195 Toyo's) before they were excluded on the Civics that were shaving them for the big tour events and seemed to like them better that way.
My RS3's (v1) back in the day were awesome to the last drop. I was at an event and literally felt on my afternoon runs that the grip just started going away ... looked and the fronts were nearly slicks
Before that they felt great. My Z2 Star Specs I just took off the car started feeling like grip was dropping off quickly and they are just barely to the wear bars. Seemed like the Z2 non star specs I had last season made it further and still felt better.
I hear the RE-71R's are pretty much good to the last bit of tread, but are best until a bit before that. I also hear like others have mentioned that shaving them does not make them faster but provides better feel. Of course, if that makes a certain driver faster, then that is faster.
I have only had a bit of street driving (I dont drive the S every day .. more like once a week plus some on the weekends) and one practice event at which my co driver and I probably only got about 30 runs total, if that. We really didnt spend a lot of time in the car that day compared to most practice events. So I dont have any data personally yet.
I know a lot of people I knew that ran the "pixie dust" tires (195 Toyo's) before they were excluded on the Civics that were shaving them for the big tour events and seemed to like them better that way.
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08-21-2015, 03:11 PM
#8
Massive disagree here.
The RS-3 V1s were dead the moment their shoulder went bald regardless of the tread through the center. Without the shoulders in the rear, the car would become tail happy. I could tell visually by the bald shoulders, and anecdotally because of the suspension adjustments required to tame the car. As they cycled out they also took more and more heat to soften up the significantly harder rubber.
The RS-3V2s and Z2s both show marginally harder on the durometer when they are dead. I don't have a hard run number and they don't get nasty but they do get slow.
I've only killed one set of RE-71s. Thirty autocross runs plus a single lapping day at CotA killed them on two fronts: 1) bald shoulders and beveled center rib 2) 3-5 points harder on the durometer. I tried the bald shoulders on both outside and inside to no avail. I swapped to stickers and the finicky understeer/oversteer disappeared.
These are dead:
The RS-3 V1s were dead the moment their shoulder went bald regardless of the tread through the center. Without the shoulders in the rear, the car would become tail happy. I could tell visually by the bald shoulders, and anecdotally because of the suspension adjustments required to tame the car. As they cycled out they also took more and more heat to soften up the significantly harder rubber.
The RS-3V2s and Z2s both show marginally harder on the durometer when they are dead. I don't have a hard run number and they don't get nasty but they do get slow.
I've only killed one set of RE-71s. Thirty autocross runs plus a single lapping day at CotA killed them on two fronts: 1) bald shoulders and beveled center rib 2) 3-5 points harder on the durometer. I tried the bald shoulders on both outside and inside to no avail. I swapped to stickers and the finicky understeer/oversteer disappeared.
These are dead:
08-21-2015, 07:22 PM
#9
I'm afraid I may be 1 or 2 events short on my tires. There are still 7 more events on the schedule and I'm sharing the car with my wife...so that could be 70+ runs. We've run two events since I've flipped the fronts.
08-24-2015, 07:16 AM
#10
Massive disagree here.
The RS-3 V1s were dead the moment their shoulder went bald regardless of the tread through the center. Without the shoulders in the rear, the car would become tail happy. I could tell visually by the bald shoulders, and anecdotally because of the suspension adjustments required to tame the car. As they cycled out they also took more and more heat to soften up the significantly harder rubber.
The RS-3V2s and Z2s both show marginally harder on the durometer when they are dead. I don't have a hard run number and they don't get nasty but they do get slow.
I've only killed one set of RE-71s. Thirty autocross runs plus a single lapping day at CotA killed them on two fronts: 1) bald shoulders and beveled center rib 2) 3-5 points harder on the durometer. I tried the bald shoulders on both outside and inside to no avail. I swapped to stickers and the finicky understeer/oversteer disappeared.
These are dead:
The RS-3 V1s were dead the moment their shoulder went bald regardless of the tread through the center. Without the shoulders in the rear, the car would become tail happy. I could tell visually by the bald shoulders, and anecdotally because of the suspension adjustments required to tame the car. As they cycled out they also took more and more heat to soften up the significantly harder rubber.
The RS-3V2s and Z2s both show marginally harder on the durometer when they are dead. I don't have a hard run number and they don't get nasty but they do get slow.
I've only killed one set of RE-71s. Thirty autocross runs plus a single lapping day at CotA killed them on two fronts: 1) bald shoulders and beveled center rib 2) 3-5 points harder on the durometer. I tried the bald shoulders on both outside and inside to no avail. I swapped to stickers and the finicky understeer/oversteer disappeared.
These are dead: