STR Prep - ECU and Tuning Discusson
08-10-2012, 07:30 PM
#581
As I've said previously, other than the stupid CEL's we're throwing, our open loop maps feel absolutely AWESOME in the street at part throttle + WOT and at AutoX events. Once the CEL's are resolved, I hope to never remember that I even have an EMU behind my seat somewhere.
Huge thanks to Brian Karwan @ Karcept's, Inc.
for all of his hard work so far and determination in figuring this out by piecing it all together from multiple, very helpful, sources. No need to list ya all, you know who you are. Here's to hoping that others reading this will find issues with their settings and wiring and will say "oh sh*t....no wonder...", and make the changes necessary and report back a bunch of smiley faces.
Let's all get some great tunes and just concentrate on racing
, I mean concentrate on the rest of the things we do to our STR cars.
08-10-2012, 07:43 PM
#582
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Okay, the Boomslang harness is darn close, but not quite there (at least not one you may have in hand as I am writing this…). All the information online at this point and in the Greddy Manual has wiring that does not work well with our factory NA STR setups. Specifically, the major hindrance preventing the rev limiter extension function from working properly is the wiring for our factory MAP sensor. If using an optional Greddy MAP sensor, the default Boomslang wiring and EMU Manual wiring called out does seem to work correctly based off info from user urban_dK. Since an aftermarket MAP sensor would be illegal in STR trim, we need to perform a wiring change.
Here is a datalog of the issue preventing the rev limit extension from working:
Notice the injector duty cycle fluctuations. From day 1 on my EMU install, I knew this was not right and had a strong feeling if I could figure out how to eliminate what seems to be a total drop in injector signal (specifically at higher rpm), then hopefully the rev limit extension would finally activate… I was able to get the limiter extension to work under these circumstances with V2.23; however, it was (at best) 3% of the time as I did hundreds of slams off rev limiter in my car and only obtained a handful of successful attempts… needless to say; this was very frustrating to see the function working, yet so seldom…
So, after the correction to the MAP sensor wiring; BAM, no more injector fluctuations and I have a consistent 8600rpm limiter!!
I hope this was helpful,
-Brian
Here is a datalog of the issue preventing the rev limit extension from working:
Notice the injector duty cycle fluctuations. From day 1 on my EMU install, I knew this was not right and had a strong feeling if I could figure out how to eliminate what seems to be a total drop in injector signal (specifically at higher rpm), then hopefully the rev limit extension would finally activate… I was able to get the limiter extension to work under these circumstances with V2.23; however, it was (at best) 3% of the time as I did hundreds of slams off rev limiter in my car and only obtained a handful of successful attempts… needless to say; this was very frustrating to see the function working, yet so seldom…
So, after the correction to the MAP sensor wiring; BAM, no more injector fluctuations and I have a consistent 8600rpm limiter!!
I hope this was helpful,
-Brian
For anyone running the Greddy harness, it is also wired like the Boomslang and needs a MAP tap.
I've been talking with Random1 about this since he contacted Boomslang and I still don't see how the "airflow output" channel is screwing things up. But, it certainly seems to be observable in your logs.
08-10-2012, 08:12 PM
#583
JP13: OPEN (I’m using JP13 in OPEN for Knock Signal Input with a Boomslang harness purchased in their most popular option “Knock Sensor & Intake Air Temp”)
JP14: OPEN (I’m using JP14 in OPEN for Intake Temp Input with a Boomslang harness purchased in their most popular option “Knock Sensor & Intake Air Temp”. It is stated in the manual to use 1-2 in general for pull-up type (temp sensors), but that was not the case for my AP2v1)
JP14: OPEN (I’m using JP14 in OPEN for Intake Temp Input with a Boomslang harness purchased in their most popular option “Knock Sensor & Intake Air Temp”. It is stated in the manual to use 1-2 in general for pull-up type (temp sensors), but that was not the case for my AP2v1)
I got from boomslang in late June and I can't wait to finally setup my GEMU on my 05 - I was hoping for a comprehensive post like Brians before jumping in and installing mine
08-10-2012, 08:53 PM
#584
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The knock sensor can be read through the EMU datalogs no problem; but like most of the Honda knock sensors, they seem to be so sensitive that what may show as knock is mainly just a lot of noise (if you do a datalog on an untuned map you will observe what I mean). I have found it slightly helpful, but not much.. Also, you can read coolant and intake temps through a scan tool, so may as well get the knock option.
08-11-2012, 06:09 AM
#586
Thread Starter
Brian, thanks for clarifying and eliminating all the noise in the air.
THANK YOU for finally explaining why the hell I was seeing drop outs in my logs and not in urban_DK's logs. I'm going to rip my harness out as soon as I can find the time.
For anyone running the Greddy harness, it is also wired like the Boomslang and needs a MAP tap.
I've been talking with Random1 about this since he contacted Boomslang and I still don't see how the "airflow output" channel is screwing things up. But, it certainly seems to be observable in your logs.
If I now go to a MAP tap and eliminate the injector fluctuations will my tune need to be redone or will it just run smoother? In other words, is my current tune compensating for the injector fluctuations and will it now be over compensating if the drop outs are removed with the MAP tap in place?
My guess would be that it runs richer rather then leaner or am I not understanding something here? I felt like the misses/breakups I have been getting recently may have been lean misfires. I was getting no codes thrown under these circumstances (upper RPM range holding constant throttle).
Please share what CEL codes were being thrown that come at idle with some delay. I have gotten the following codes at idle some time delay after running hard P0420 (low cat efficiency), P0170 (Fuel Trim), and P0171 (Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean Fault Bank A). Some times after a run at an event, sometimes after the event sitting at a light. They stop coming after a while and only show up after the OEM ECU gets reset like after a battery swap. These codes appear to have no effect, at the events the car runs awesome.
Thanks again to Brian and everyone else to help pull this together. Just in time for Nationals too. As Rad said I just want to focus on driving, not messing with the car.
Originally Posted by Karcepts' timestamp='1344655269' post='21928764
Okay, the Boomslang harness is darn close, but not quite there (at least not one you may have in hand as I am writing this…). All the information online at this point and in the Greddy Manual has wiring that does not work well with our factory NA STR setups. Specifically, the major hindrance preventing the rev limiter extension function from working properly is the wiring for our factory MAP sensor. If using an optional Greddy MAP sensor, the default Boomslang wiring and EMU Manual wiring called out does seem to work correctly based off info from user urban_dK. Since an aftermarket MAP sensor would be illegal in STR trim, we need to perform a wiring change.
Here is a datalog of the issue preventing the rev limit extension from working:
Notice the injector duty cycle fluctuations. From day 1 on my EMU install, I knew this was not right and had a strong feeling if I could figure out how to eliminate what seems to be a total drop in injector signal (specifically at higher rpm), then hopefully the rev limit extension would finally activate… I was able to get the limiter extension to work under these circumstances with V2.23; however, it was (at best) 3% of the time as I did hundreds of slams off rev limiter in my car and only obtained a handful of successful attempts… needless to say; this was very frustrating to see the function working, yet so seldom…
So, after the correction to the MAP sensor wiring; BAM, no more injector fluctuations and I have a consistent 8600rpm limiter!!
I hope this was helpful,
-Brian
Here is a datalog of the issue preventing the rev limit extension from working:
Notice the injector duty cycle fluctuations. From day 1 on my EMU install, I knew this was not right and had a strong feeling if I could figure out how to eliminate what seems to be a total drop in injector signal (specifically at higher rpm), then hopefully the rev limit extension would finally activate… I was able to get the limiter extension to work under these circumstances with V2.23; however, it was (at best) 3% of the time as I did hundreds of slams off rev limiter in my car and only obtained a handful of successful attempts… needless to say; this was very frustrating to see the function working, yet so seldom…
So, after the correction to the MAP sensor wiring; BAM, no more injector fluctuations and I have a consistent 8600rpm limiter!!
I hope this was helpful,
-Brian
For anyone running the Greddy harness, it is also wired like the Boomslang and needs a MAP tap.
I've been talking with Random1 about this since he contacted Boomslang and I still don't see how the "airflow output" channel is screwing things up. But, it certainly seems to be observable in your logs.
My guess would be that it runs richer rather then leaner or am I not understanding something here? I felt like the misses/breakups I have been getting recently may have been lean misfires. I was getting no codes thrown under these circumstances (upper RPM range holding constant throttle).
Please share what CEL codes were being thrown that come at idle with some delay. I have gotten the following codes at idle some time delay after running hard P0420 (low cat efficiency), P0170 (Fuel Trim), and P0171 (Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean Fault Bank A). Some times after a run at an event, sometimes after the event sitting at a light. They stop coming after a while and only show up after the OEM ECU gets reset like after a battery swap. These codes appear to have no effect, at the events the car runs awesome.
Thanks again to Brian and everyone else to help pull this together. Just in time for Nationals too. As Rad said I just want to focus on driving, not messing with the car.
08-11-2012, 11:09 AM
#588
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I swear I hate this POS! Stupid! ugh!
I've tried wiring you the pin 21 for the vtec wire and everything. I've tried jumper 17 on 1-2 and open and I've tried jumper 8 on both 1-2 and 2-3. (didn't make any change but I rather not burn up my injectors) It keeps throwing codes and then it locks me out from reving about 6k. So I wired it back to how I had it, changed jumper 17 back to 1-2 and now it pulls strong with zero issues but vtec is at 6k and if I enable the vtec map it freaks out and throws codes.
Whats everyones duty cycles at redline? I'm at 83%. Bouncing off the rev-limiter I'm ranging from 8546-9159RPMs as it bounces. I wonder what the chart looks like when I hold right at redline but not hitting it, I might test that tonight. Also I'm showing 99% throttle at 100% throttle does this matter?
I've tried wiring you the pin 21 for the vtec wire and everything. I've tried jumper 17 on 1-2 and open and I've tried jumper 8 on both 1-2 and 2-3. (didn't make any change but I rather not burn up my injectors) It keeps throwing codes and then it locks me out from reving about 6k. So I wired it back to how I had it, changed jumper 17 back to 1-2 and now it pulls strong with zero issues but vtec is at 6k and if I enable the vtec map it freaks out and throws codes.
Whats everyones duty cycles at redline? I'm at 83%. Bouncing off the rev-limiter I'm ranging from 8546-9159RPMs as it bounces. I wonder what the chart looks like when I hold right at redline but not hitting it, I might test that tonight. Also I'm showing 99% throttle at 100% throttle does this matter?
08-11-2012, 02:31 PM
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If I now go to a MAP tap and eliminate the injector fluctuations will my tune need to be redone or will it just run smoother? In other words, is my current tune compensating for the injector fluctuations and will it now be over compensating if the drop outs are removed with the MAP tap in place?
I swear I hate this POS! Stupid! ugh!
I've tried wiring you the pin 21 for the vtec wire and everything. I've tried jumper 17 on 1-2 and open and I've tried jumper 8 on both 1-2 and 2-3. (didn't make any change but I rather not burn up my injectors) It keeps throwing codes and then it locks me out from reving about 6k. So I wired it back to how I had it, changed jumper 17 back to 1-2 and now it pulls strong with zero issues but vtec is at 6k and if I enable the vtec map it freaks out and throws codes.
I've tried wiring you the pin 21 for the vtec wire and everything. I've tried jumper 17 on 1-2 and open and I've tried jumper 8 on both 1-2 and 2-3. (didn't make any change but I rather not burn up my injectors) It keeps throwing codes and then it locks me out from reving about 6k. So I wired it back to how I had it, changed jumper 17 back to 1-2 and now it pulls strong with zero issues but vtec is at 6k and if I enable the vtec map it freaks out and throws codes.
Go to the "Throttle" tab and manually adjust the TPS voltage numbers when off throttle ("MIN") and when full throttle ("MAX") until they respectively read 0% and 100%. It's easy: engine off, ignition switch on, laptop hooked up and live with EMU, play with throttle pedal and voltage numbers until you get correct. But no, 99% is not going to matter, but that is how you correct it...
