Nate Tempest

Yep, it's another tire thread...

I've been contemplating getting a second set of wheels for track days. Last season I just ran on RE-71Rs, which were plenty fast, but I went through two full sets in about five track days and about 7 autocrosses. Would love to get a bit better wear, and ideally go faster in the process... (And without paying twice as much per tire.)

I know the other thread is talking about RS4s, which sound good, but I'm looking for something at least as fast as the REs. I don't currently have a tire trailer, but I wouldn't be totally opposed to getting one if necessary. (On one hand it would probably be a bit of a waste just for track days, but on the other hand it would make it much less likely I'd get stranded at the track. And it would mean I could run the tires a bit lower on tread since I wouldn't worry about my day ending if I corded one unexpectedly, since I could always run the REs as a backup.)

So, if I have a trailer and just want to go fast I guess I'd be looking at a Hoosier R7 or BFG R1. Not sure those would be any more economical than the Bridgestones though, as I doubt they'd last much longer, and they're more expensive.

Intermediate option looks like something like a Toyo Proxes RR—still faster, but likely to wear better too? Potentially Trofeo R, but I'm not sure those would fit my fenders at the front, as I'm running pretty close with 255s, and they run wide. Anything else in that range, or thoughts on how the RR stack up against the RE-71R?

Then if I don't want to deal with the trailer, options would be maybe Proxes R1R or R888R? Not sure how these stack up in terms of wear or performance though.

What do you guys think? Obviously track days aren't timed, so I don't need the fastest possible tire. On the other hand, I don't feel like going to the hassle of switching wheels every time just to save a bit of treadwear, so I'd like something that's at least a bit of a bump. Also our local club does run a couple of casual time attacks each season, so going faster for those would be a nice added benefit.

DavidNJ

What autocross class are you running? STR? If you are going to be fast in STR at competitive autocrosses (there are always days when 3 cars show up) your tire choices are limited and so far the RE71r is at or near the top of the list and has been for 4 years (2019 with be the 5th, very long for a competition tire).

Are the track days competitive events? If not, why is going fast important? In addition to tire wear (there is a reason the tires you listed have a TW of 40 or 100 vs 200 for the RE71r and all STR legal tires). Fast tires tend to be sacrificial, at least in the resins that give them their adhesion and maybe in the tread itself. A lot of people seem to like the RE71r and the A052 on the track. The A052 is not STR legal because its initial tread depth is 1/32nd to little. If it was, it would probably be giving the RE71r and Rival S 1.5 a run for the money.

But high adhesion tires put all sorts of additional stress on the chassis because of the higher cornering and braking forces. If the car had enough power to make traction marginal, they would also put an additional drivetrain load (drag racers break also sorts of interesting stuff, a look at the FI forum here will show the mod some people needed as their cars went to 600hp, 700hp, 800hp, or higher. You may remember AP1 cars had a problem with their upper front control arm mounts in track day and competitive situations.

That said, your track day car probably isn't limited to 255. Lots of people run wider tires an wheels, but some fender reworking is necessary.

Nate Tempest

Yes, I'm in STR, and I'm already on RE-71Rs. I also use the car to do several non-competitive track days and a couple of competitive but small, local time attacks each year. So yeah, like I said, it doesn't need to be the fastest tire in the world—if I just wanted be be as fast as possible I'd get some A7s and burn through a set each day or two. But as far as why going fast is important, mostly because going faster is more fun than going slower. I'm already used to the car on RE-71Rs, and I don't feel like taking a step back in performance. (Also don't want to go wider than 255, since I want to be able to swap back to my autocross tires and stay STR legal.)

Yes, the RE is a "200tw" tire, but it's not really. It's an autocross tire, designed to be as sticky as possible while nominally meeting 200tw, and not necessarily to withstand high temperature. Everything I've read suggests that dedicated track tires, even with lower treadwear ratings, can last much longer under track conditions, without giving up grip. For example, it's commonly claimed that the NT01 is about as fast as the RE-71R once it's up to temp, but lasts much longer on the track. So that's one option. But my thinking is, if I'm going to switch wheels for track days, rather than similar performance and much better wear, I'd ideally like to find something that would offer somewhat better performance and somewhat better wear, if such a tire exists.

Nate Tempest

The A052 do sound like they might be a good option. Can drive them to and from the track, faster than the RE71R, and a bit longer lasting, based on the Tirerack reviews. Anyone tried both?
https://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surv...irePageLocQty=

DavidNJ

A bunch of the reviewers at Tire Rack have had both. They tend to favor the A052. But not STR legal, so it is an extra set of wheels and tires.

Typical:

However, if I was spending the money for a second set of track only tires and rims, I'd probably want to use 295/30-18 or 315/30-18 on 18x11+38 rims with a little fender work. There are two cars running A7's that size; they both seem to lift the inside wheels and use an OS Giken differential. Won of the most competitive and colorful race series was the SCCA Trans Am from 1967 to 1970. Using Mustangs, Camaros, etc, these cars weighed about the same as an S2000 (2800lb), had a bit more power, worse handling, and smaller tires. They probably had around 400hp. As an example of component frailty, the American Racing Equipment wheels would occasionally break. Penske caused a stir when they started using the English Minilite wheels. Penske's influence was so great they soon became ubiquitous.

For reference, at Lime Rock the fastest lap was a 59.8 sec by Parnelli Jones in a Boss 302 Mustang. There are S2000s beating that at track days. Is it really necessary to go faster?

For just track days, I think I'd probably invest in better data acquisition that aided driving and chassis setup improvements.

HawkeyeGeoff

If you want to be competitive in Autocross, keep RE71R's. They're the only 200TW that will perform with that type of warm up.

For track days, I highly recommend Hankook RS4. They take 1-2 laps to warm up, but they wear like iron. I put 12 days on mine last year (well they were actually RS3...but basically the same). The RS4 have marginally less total overall grip when warmed up and don't become so greasy at the end of sessions like the RE71R do.

So, in short, it just depends what you want.

Nate Tempest

@DavidNJ

Yes, I saw those reviews, but I'd be curious if anyone has used them on an S2k (as well as any of the other tires I mentioned, or others!)

Regarding wider tires with fender work, as I said, I want to remain STR legal.

Nate Tempest

Of course I'll be keeping the RE71Rs for autocross.

I mentioned the RS4 in my original post. Not quite what I'm looking for. I'd like something that offers at least slightly better treadwear than the RE on the track, but is also at least as fast. That's why I was throwing out ideas like the Proxes RR, R1R, R888R, or now the Yoko A052. The latter sounds like a slight step up from the RE in both wear and grip for track use, but it's still a street/track tire, so I'm curious whether something like the RR might be more what I'm looking for. (Or even something like the BFG R1, but I'm guessing that will wear at least as fast as the RE71R.)

HawkeyeGeoff

Yeah I see what you're saying, but the truth is they are pretty much just as fast. All of those tires you listed are old technology....if you want that R Compound Tire you may as well just get some Nitto NT01, because it's the same compound as those minus the Yokos.

ZDan

RR is I think a kind of one-event tire as far as quick lap times. In 2018 I time-trialed my BRZ on RE71R and NT01s. After I won 1st event at NHMS by a tenth on 245 RE71R, my competition (also BRZ) got a set of RRs (was on 235 NT01) and killed me next event at Palmer, by 0.9s. Next event I got 235 NT01s, he barely beat me by ~0.1s. Next event I beat him by 0.3ish on NT01s, and I won each of the remaining 4 events on RE71Rs by an increasing margin each time. I think his RRs were just getting slower every heat cycle, despite the fact that he was saving them, only running them for one practice session and the TT at each event.

IMO I was pretty equal on either RE71R and NT01, the difference being that RE71R started quicker but got slower after about 3 track days. The real difference was my buddy stuck with his RRs even though they were IMO significantly degrading after each event. See below plot of time delta between us over the course of the season:

For roughly equal lap times and greater tire life, you could go NT01. I'm going to try the A052s next year, hopefully a bit faster and longer-life vs. RE71R...