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-   -   Track prep advice (https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-racing-competition-11/track-prep-advice-1190960/)

Silkyjohnson 01-11-2019 12:41 PM

Track prep advice
 
**Long post warning**

Quick overview of the car as it currently sits:
2001
17x9 RPF1's
245/40 Direzza Z2's
Swift Spec R springs on stock AP1 shocks, -2 degree camber
Intake/test pipe/exhaust

Had a great first season at the track, did 5 events mostly without issue. I tired to be as diligent as possible with my maintenance, but would love a little input with what I plan to do, and also what I should be doing. First a list of things I did prior to this season to prep:

-Flushed out my old ATE super blue fluid for RBF600
-New blank centric rotors
-Stoptech sport pads
-New front calipers(were starting to stick, extremely difficult to compress the piston)
-Transmission fluid(honda MTF)
-Fresh oil change with OE blue filter before each event (the car mainly only saw the track plus the drive to and from the track this year)

As the season progressed I started to get a bit quicker and was starting to pass the limits of my stoptech sports, which I knew would end up being a little bit of a problem. Nothing terrible, but they did end up starting to fade at NJMP events. My plan for the brakes this year is as follows:

-New rear calipers, while not sticking, they are also very difficult to compress(even with the proper tool)
-Hawk DTC60's
-Ducting front and rear
-SS brake lines

Ive been doing a little homework on track pads, and like what I've read on the DTC's. I have had hawk pads in the past and liked them(albeit they were just HPS for street/autox duty), ALOT of people out on track seem to run hawk products and seem pleased with them. The plan for these would be track duty only, but would have to drive to and from the track with them(tracks are on average 2+ hours away). Any suggestions/input here would be appreciated. My major concerns are cracking rotors, not that its the end of the world, just that I need to drive home after these events. I may look into carrying a full set of rotors next season for this reason, but hoping the ducting will help prevent fade and overheated cracked rotors.

Some additional maintenance I plan to do this winter:
-Diff fluid(motul 90)
-billman's TCT
-recheck valve springs(did about 10k miles ago)
-Coolant flush(oe blue honda)

I wanted to calm down the oversteer a bit and was looking to do a front sway bar, but was not looking to go all out on a karcepts or anything yet. Any suggestions on which bar I should look at? Ive also been going back and fourth on upgrading to some ohlins DFV's, while I will eventually pull the trigger on them, I feel I could spend the money a bit more wisely this winter. I actually dont mind my swift springs on stock struts, I know there nothing special but the car does handle well(for the most part, typical square setup AP1 shes real tail happy). I feel if I upgrade the front bar I can have another fun and educational season and then move on past them next winter(when I would plan to also do a 255 tire most likely a bit sticker than the Direzza Z2's)

Where I really wanted to spend the money was on a seat(s)/harness/roll bar/steering wheel. Unfortunately for me, the only seat that I know I fit comfortably in and fits the car is the pole positions. Down side there is price, and those shoulder harness holes are super low. Im not a tall guy at 5'9 but I guess Im taller in the torso and they sit about mid to top of my shoulder blade. I dont think thats very good while running a harness if the worst happens. Any seat suggestions for bigger guys? I also have had my eye on a 330mm wheel, possibly with a quick release(figured it would be tough getting in with the high bolsters and fixed wheel).

Anyway, sorry for the long post thats sort of all over the place. Ive had so many thoughts/ideas of what to do im just sort of overwhelmed.

bdo 01-11-2019 12:53 PM

Just my experience, but you may be shocked how much alignment can affect over/understeer (I was). Consider adding some rear toe before spending money to throw parts at the problem.

freq 01-11-2019 01:19 PM

Ducting will likely cure your cracking rotors. Carry a spare (used) front JIC.

Everything else looks good IMHO, you'd likely be OK extending your oil & filter changes. A Blackstone lab test wouldn't hurt.

Did you get tow straps? Have you considered Hankook RS4s? They wear great, stick well and will work decent in the wet and during your drives to and from the track.

See you in Spring. :)

s2000sccaracer 01-11-2019 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by bdo (Post 24553141)
Just my experience, but you may be shocked how much alignment can affect over/understeer (I was). Consider adding some rear toe before spending money to throw parts at the problem.

I second this.

DanielB 01-12-2019 08:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Adding ducting and using DTC60 pads will let you get the most out of the stock brakes. I ran that until I went square at which point there just wasn't enough thermal capacity and my braking points were determined by the heat build up in the brake system rather than grip of the tires.

I think you could go a lot longer with oil changes. I've attached my last oil analysis after 4k miles and 5 track days using Mobile 1 10W-30.

With regard to taming oversteer on an early S2000, oversteer occurs when you transfer weight off the rear in a corner and the suspension toes out under rebound. If you manage weight transfer to avoid this, then you'll find the car is actually tuned for slight understeer. Adding a thicker front bar doesn't really address the issue as it just adds more understeer under steady state conditions. As a point of reference, when I switched to the SBG Ohlins 11k/11k on my MY00, the rear bump steer practically vanished. The MY00 and 01 cars used soft springs and stiff bars. Later models stiffened the springs and softened the bars which reduced toe changes in the rear. AP2s also got different rear geometry with less toe out under rebound.

If you're not ready to upgrade to coil overs with stiffer springs, then you might want to consider a bump steer kit for the rear to help tame the toe change. Probably about the same price as a front bar and more likely to result in a neutral handling setup.

Xene 01-13-2019 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Silkyjohnson (Post 24553136)
**Long post warning**

-Fresh oil change with OE blue filter before each event (the car mainly only saw the track plus the drive to and from the track this year)

Where I really wanted to spend the money was on a seat(s)/harness/roll bar/steering wheel. Unfortunately for me, the only seat that I know I fit comfortably in and fits the car is the pole positions. Down side there is price, and those shoulder harness holes are super low. Im not a tall guy at 5'9 but I guess Im taller in the torso and they sit about mid to top of my shoulder blade. I dont think thats very good while running a harness if the worst happens. Any seat suggestions for bigger guys? I also have had my eye on a 330mm wheel, possibly with a quick release(figured it would be tough getting in with the high bolsters and fixed wheel).

You don't need to change the oil after every event. I do like 3-5 events per year and just change my oil before the season starts with new filter.

As for seats look into the Bride vios 3 or zeta 3 plus versions. They have higher holes for the straps. I personally am considering the Bride Zeta 3 plus model since it has larger holes to accommodate different size drivers for straps/hans device. I believe if your about 33 inch waist or smaller you can fit in the Zeta 3. The bride is like 32 inch waist max. Both these seats let you sit to the floor due to narrow bottom.

I would recommend the safety mods first (roll bar minimum) with seats, harness and hans device. It is a lot of $$ but you will be a better driver since you don't have to hold yourself in seat with legs under hard corning and breaking. Allows you to relax in the sit and keep your hands light on the steering wheel instead of holding onto it. Also you will be able to feel the car better in my opinion.

I would change the tires to 255 width RS4s first instead of getting ohlins coil overs. Better bang for buck. If you want to be 1-2 seconds faster (depending on track length) get the RE71R but those won't last as long.

cracknut 01-14-2019 04:02 AM

2 things:
1) if you have the time, measure bumpsteer on your car. Each car is a little different and the ride height makes a big difference, especially in the front.
2) Everyone has a different definition of "oversteer" - I prefer higher spring rates and minimal swaybar on my non-street legal racecar (small AP2 stock front bar, no rear bar, 255 square, roughly equal spring rates, and 40% more negative camber in front)

decepticondc5 01-14-2019 04:41 AM


Originally Posted by cracknut (Post 24553860)
2 things:
1) if you have the time, measure bumpsteer on your car. Each car is a little different and the ride height makes a big difference, especially in the front.
2) Everyone has a different definition of "oversteer" - I prefer higher spring rates and minimal swaybar on my non-street legal racecar (small AP2 stock front bar, no rear bar, 255 square, roughly equal spring rates, and 40% more negative camber in front)

I feel #2 needs a bit of a disclaimer since the OP's setup seems to be more of a budget driven situation. In order to get proper car setup with minimal bars, you are likely looking at extremely pricey shocks. (extreme rear rates would be required) This is also much more uncharted territory because of it and shouldn't be advice for a budget/novice track goer.

HawkeyeGeoff 01-14-2019 05:13 AM


Originally Posted by Silkyjohnson (Post 24553136)
**Long post warning**

Quick overview of the car as it currently sits:
2001
17x9 RPF1's
245/40 Direzza Z2's
Swift Spec R springs on stock AP1 shocks, -2 degree camber
Intake/test pipe/exhaust

Had a great first season at the track, did 5 events mostly without issue. I tired to be as diligent as possible with my maintenance, but would love a little input with what I plan to do, and also what I should be doing. First a list of things I did prior to this season to prep:

-Flushed out my old ATE super blue fluid for RBF600
-New blank centric rotors
-Stoptech sport pads
-New front calipers(were starting to stick, extremely difficult to compress the piston)
-Transmission fluid(honda MTF)
-Fresh oil change with OE blue filter before each event (the car mainly only saw the track plus the drive to and from the track this year)

As the season progressed I started to get a bit quicker and was starting to pass the limits of my stoptech sports, which I knew would end up being a little bit of a problem. Nothing terrible, but they did end up starting to fade at NJMP events. My plan for the brakes this year is as follows:

-New rear calipers, while not sticking, they are also very difficult to compress(even with the proper tool)
-Hawk DTC60's
-Ducting front and rear
-SS brake lines

Ive been doing a little homework on track pads, and like what I've read on the DTC's. I have had hawk pads in the past and liked them(albeit they were just HPS for street/autox duty), ALOT of people out on track seem to run hawk products and seem pleased with them. The plan for these would be track duty only, but would have to drive to and from the track with them(tracks are on average 2+ hours away). Any suggestions/input here would be appreciated. My major concerns are cracking rotors, not that its the end of the world, just that I need to drive home after these events. I may look into carrying a full set of rotors next season for this reason, but hoping the ducting will help prevent fade and overheated cracked rotors.

Some additional maintenance I plan to do this winter:
-Diff fluid(motul 90)
-billman's TCT
-recheck valve springs(did about 10k miles ago)
-Coolant flush(oe blue honda)

I wanted to calm down the oversteer a bit and was looking to do a front sway bar, but was not looking to go all out on a karcepts or anything yet. Any suggestions on which bar I should look at? Ive also been going back and fourth on upgrading to some ohlins DFV's, while I will eventually pull the trigger on them, I feel I could spend the money a bit more wisely this winter. I actually dont mind my swift springs on stock struts, I know there nothing special but the car does handle well(for the most part, typical square setup AP1 shes real tail happy). I feel if I upgrade the front bar I can have another fun and educational season and then move on past them next winter(when I would plan to also do a 255 tire most likely a bit sticker than the Direzza Z2's)

Where I really wanted to spend the money was on a seat(s)/harness/roll bar/steering wheel. Unfortunately for me, the only seat that I know I fit comfortably in and fits the car is the pole positions. Down side there is price, and those shoulder harness holes are super low. Im not a tall guy at 5'9 but I guess Im taller in the torso and they sit about mid to top of my shoulder blade. I dont think thats very good while running a harness if the worst happens. Any seat suggestions for bigger guys? I also have had my eye on a 330mm wheel, possibly with a quick release(figured it would be tough getting in with the high bolsters and fixed wheel).

Anyway, sorry for the long post thats sort of all over the place. Ive had so many thoughts/ideas of what to do im just sort of overwhelmed.

I shoved a Sparco EVO II US Spec into my car. I had to shave the shoulder bolster a bit to make it fit, but it's 100% worth it. I'm 5'5", 200 lbs, hockey thunder thighs and built like an eskimo. Feels fantastico.

Silkyjohnson 01-14-2019 06:57 AM


Originally Posted by freq (Post 24553149)
Ducting will likely cure your cracking rotors. Carry a spare (used) front JIC.

Everything else looks good IMHO, you'd likely be OK extending your oil & filter changes. A Blackstone lab test wouldn't hurt.

Did you get tow straps? Have you considered Hankook RS4s? They wear great, stick well and will work decent in the wet and during your drives to and from the track.

See you in Spring. :)

Yup, ordered the straps. Hopefully wont need them again this season ; )

I have looked into the RS4 and RE71 as a possible replacement for the Z2's, but I cant seem to kill these damn things. They are wearing amazing.


Originally Posted by Xene (Post 24553647)
You don't need to change the oil after every event. I do like 3-5 events per year and just change my oil before the season starts with new filter.

As for seats look into the Bride vios 3 or zeta 3 plus versions. They have higher holes for the straps. I personally am considering the Bride Zeta 3 plus model since it has larger holes to accommodate different size drivers for straps/hans device. I believe if your about 33 inch waist or smaller you can fit in the Zeta 3. The bride is like 32 inch waist max. Both these seats let you sit to the floor due to narrow bottom.

I would recommend the safety mods first (roll bar minimum) with seats, harness and hans device. It is a lot of $$ but you will be a better driver since you don't have to hold yourself in seat with legs under hard corning and breaking. Allows you to relax in the sit and keep your hands light on the steering wheel instead of holding onto it. Also you will be able to feel the car better in my opinion.

I would change the tires to 255 width RS4s first instead of getting ohlins coil overs. Better bang for buck. If you want to be 1-2 seconds faster (depending on track length) get the RE71R but those won't last as long.

A 255 RS4 or RE71 have been on my radar as replacements for the Z2's when the time comes. If and when I pull the trigger on the coilovers I was even thinking of something a bit more aggressive like an NT01, but thats down the line. Aside from the safety aspect of it, I was looking to do the seat/harness/bar/steering wheel for that reason, I dont want to be propping myself against the door panel or hanging off the steering wheel any more.


Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff (Post 24553879)
I shoved a Sparco EVO II US Spec into my car. I had to shave the shoulder bolster a bit to make it fit, but it's 100% worth it. I'm 5'5", 200 lbs, hockey thunder thighs and built like an eskimo. Feels fantastico.

I had looked at the EVO 2 as a possibility, it seems my fatass will fit, just a matter of will it fit in the car. Ive recently rediscovered Corbeau Froza's, which I believe will fit both me and the car, just have never been a fan of the quality or weight of the corbeau options.


Great advice in here guys, I appreciate it. I will look into getting the car re-aligned before the season. As far as the oil goes, I guess I was being a little too cautious here. Ive have not changed it since my last event so Ill be doing a fresh service over the winter, ill send out a sample to blackstone to see whats going on. Thanks again!


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