michaelnyden

I just have to wonder why I don't see more modern mustangs at the local track by me...is the coyote motor and drivetrain super reliable? That I don't have any data on, but I still stand by the C7 z51 being a better used purchase proposition because you are starting with far less weight (we are talking about apples to apples ie. C7 w/Z51, NOT Z06 to the mustang) and it would be hard to get the mustang down to a reasonable weight and thus it will always be harder on tires and brakes so your starting at a distinct disadvantage. Bundle that with the everyday better highway mileage of the corvette than the mustang due to cylinder deactivation tech and it has a lower cost of ownership. The Z06 is a different animal, more power, more weight, more cost. Safety equipment aside as you pointed out, I don't think that would be as much as a headache as people make out of it if you really want to get serious at the track but HPDE days to install it and most tracks near me aren't as strict about this for these casual events anyway.

gptoyz

I got throw in my vote for a Cayman s these things are actually pretty cheap to maintain and pretty easy to wrench on

IMS really isn't an issue

Stock bbk

Tire sizes pretty cheap

Oil changes and transaxle fluid is super cheap

Shifter sucks like crap, would be nice if it got the 911 oil pressure gauge

DavidNJ

Funny to have a Corvette vs Mustang discussion on an S2k forum. A regular C7 Z51 will probably be pretty close to a Mustang PP2. Not totally fair because stock the Corvette is on runflat Pilot Super Sports and Mustang on Pilot Sport Cup 2. On equal tires, the Corvette would be faster, and about $20k more expensive new. A used 2014 is about the same cost of the Mustang new. The Corvette would fit between the Mustang in ease of adding a roll bar and harness.

P.S. I'd take the S2000 as a street sports car over either. New, I picked the S2000 over a Boxster S twice (in 1999 and in 2004). If I could go back in time I would have bought a 2009 S2k. If I could only have one car, it would probably be the Mustang...it's just more practical.

hwyix

What is the oldest year ( cheapest ) Mustang did that? is that 305 on the front?

DavidNJ

PP2 is new for the Spring of 2018, it is meant to compete with the Chevy 1LE. The car has 305/30 all around, on 10.5" rims front, 11" rims rear. I'd expect to handle similarly to the GT350R, which has the same tires and same size wheels.

2015-to-2017 used Mustang GT Performance Packs and Camaro 1LE V8s range from the high $20k range to low $30k range.

New or used, tires and brake pads are expendables. The standard PS2s may be great for the track, but a second set of wheels with P4S tires is probably a good idea. The wheels are 1.5" narrower on the original performance package, and the suspension a bit less stiff. The Mustang Performance Pack wasn't in the league of the Camaro 1LE; that is a gap the performance pack 2 is supposed to bridge.

There are leftover 2017s around on the 1LE. It includes floating front rotors and transmission and diff oil coolers. Tires are 285/305. It also has GM's performance recorder and a heads-up display. The interior has the charm of a taxi cab and outward visibility is similar to a WWII tank or a bunker on the Maginot line.

Note: The 6th Gen, 2016 and newer Camaro, has had rev matching which could avoid an on track foible with a mismatched downshift. The Mustang is adding that for the 2019 model year. So, for the Mustang, it might be worthwhile until a 2019 is available.

The key here is the manufacturers are delivery the cars HPDE ready including most/all of the braking and cooling needs, chassis stiffeners, and a track-ready suspension. Is it as good as a car you can build with aftermarket parts and a bit of tuning? No. But it is a sorted, turnkey package for way less than it would cost to build it yourself.

This is the V8 1LE at VIR in Car and Driver's Lightning Lap: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2016-feature. Note it gets close to 140mph at three points on the track. I'd hate to find out what a 140mph wreck is like with basically street safety equipment.

At the bottom of this are the questions: what do you want to do and how much do you want to spend. If you want to do HPDE days a few times a year with a car you drive every day these fit the bill. The Mustang the better street car, the Camaro the better track car, until the PP2 became available this year.

If you want to keep tuning your car with changing tires, springs, shocks, bars, alignment, engine mods, etc while fixing its shortcomings, there are lots of choices. The S2000 is probably one of the best of those.

BoboTheMonkey

I have a pick up DD, so #1 answer is, it would be trailered. I'm sure car I would be happy with would have 30K or more into it by the time it was was done, and yea thats a tough pill to swallow when if you wreck it in an unsalvageable manner. Plus, i'd probably figure another 5-10k in events and maintenance every year. I also do agree with you on the SRF or even the formula cars. If you want to get into a real race car, they are going to be hella fast and are pretty cheap to maintain. Don't they sell the whole kit for around 25K?

With all of this said... I don't know if I can do a true double duty. I live in WI and snow and track cars don't mix...

DavidNJ

There are some pretty rich people in SRF. They own multiple cars and the SCCA CSR maintains the car and brings it to the track. They also rent cars when they go to races far from home.

There are also a lot of people in SRF on a shoestring budget. My local CSR told me very few new cars are sold since they are identical to the 900 other cars that have been sold since 1984. It cost a bit over $12k for the upgrade from Gen 2 (105hp) to Gen 3 (135hp, 100# lighter, and less subject to damage from over revving.

A new kit is about $43k, but by the time paint, dash, and such are added they get closer to $50k. A new one becomes an old one fast; pictures of #920 being assembled by a CSR got the comment: "They always look great until that first kiss of Armco!"

Used SRF3s typically sell for $25k-$35k. As the biggest road racing class in the US with cars that don't get obsolete resale, is strong. SRF2s are are anywhere between $10k and $20k. The range reflects condition and some upgrades (such as new suspension rocker arms, Penske shocks, AIM dash, Butlerbuild head restraint.) For a track day car where you don't need a rebuild to get that last 1-3hp or are going to scrape up the bodywork bouncing around in tight traffic, maintenance should be very inexpensive. The cars use Hoosier tires; used tires from drivers running SCCA Majors should be available at reasonable prices and more than adequate for track days.

Every SRF is equivalent to a Spec Miata from a top builder. While there are lots of Spec Miatas, less than half are from top builders. New top-builder Spec Miata prices are roughly the same as new SRF prices (East Street is a little less expensive than some of the others.)

For track days, especially behind a pickup with room to carry stuff, an open trailer is probably adequate. It would be a small trailer...this isn't a large car. A single garage bay should be adequate (two are better), a lift isn't necessary or probably that useful. As a bonus, you could use the car to get an SCCA license and run SCCA races. You could also use it in autocrosses.

There are some P1 and P2 cars around $30k. Some are older; some are desperation sales (the market is a lot smaller). These cars, recent ones with carbon fiber chassis and full aero, are wicked fast. Some are paddle shifted. A new Wolf or Norma CN chassis with K20 power for P1 could run close to $200k. There are all sorts of home-builts. An option for someone who wanted to go very fast (maybe 6+sec/lap quicker than a C7/Z06/Z07 at Road Atlanta). The used market is lean.

I thought most track day and HPDE events didn't allow formula cars.

http://www.specracer.com/forums/view...php?f=4&t=3126 SRF2, #813, with an aluminum trailer, $20k, Memphis

http://www.specracer.com/forums/view...php?f=4&t=3117 SRF2, older, $12k, Houston

BoboTheMonkey

Kind of off subject to the thread at this point, but the SRF seems like the way to go for track car. I think I would buy a gen 2 and upgrade eventually. You can race it in just about anything and its a purpose built race car. Its designed to handle heavy track use with no compromise.

To keep it on topic a bit, the issue with street driving a race car is that you need to make compromises. The s2000 is very capable and with a roll bar and brake upgrades, you can do pretty decent on track, even in relatively stock form. For DD it would kind of suck... I had a WRX as a DD that was an impressive car for many reasons, but a little heavy and didn't handle nearly as well as the s2000 does. Most good track cars will not even remotely make good DD's. It really depends on how much comfort you are willing to compromise.

DavidNJ

The SRF is probably an excellent way to go. Negatives are no passenger seat for instructor, you will get wet when it rains, and you may want a jacket and balaclava on cold days. The small size and light weight make it easy to tow behind a variety of vehicles.

Back to the Mustang, apparently they are now taking orders for 2019 models for early July delivery. The 2019 will have rev-matching and be a model year new with corresponding lower depreciation. With availability of a full bolt-in roll bar using factory holes to structural members, seat tracks to mount racing seats with submarine belts and lap belts while keeping OEM belts, and being track ready more or less out of the box otherwise (maybe add front brake ducts, change pads, and realign for more track friendly camber), and the room to carry stuff to the track, this seems like a great HPDE choice.

erikl

That is pretty neat what they are doing with the Mustang....but, geez they are heavy. Almost 4000 lbs with gas and driver.