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Different problem. A frontal head restraint like the HANS/NexGen/Simpson/Schroth/Z-Tech/etc. are for frontal impacts. They don't provide protection in side impacts. Additionally, your neck is designed to move forward, not violently to the side. This thread has been about impacts in the 120° that isn't covered by the head rest behind the helmet or the frontal head restraint.
That said, there are lots of different frontal restraints. That is a very old Nexgen video. They have a newer model now. One issue with a FHR/SHR/HANS device is the angle seat it is designed for and the shape of the driver's chest. Typically the came with a rigid arch over the chest and a fixed angle. HANS and Z-Tech have models with adjustable angles. The Z-Tech, from Zamp, is the least expensive SFI 38.1 on the market at around $325. The adjustable HANS is about $600.
The Nexgen and Schroff are different. Both are around $600. The has only a little padding going down the front. The Schroth, has a flexible front with a pivot but stops against a bumper at around 40 deg.
All are SFI 38.1 certified, but we don't have the actual test results to compare. Only some of the HANS and Simpson devices are FIA certified and sold in the US.
The video showed drilling your own mounting. Virtually every element has the FIA standard 6mm posts installed. Helmets with the FIA 8859-2015 certification have that been certified with the posts. Snell SA2015 doesn't include a post certification.
There is one device that isn't SFI or FIA certified. It uses fluid dampers instead of nylon straps and requires its own helmet attachment. People claim it also provides lateral support since the damper only cares about the velocity of the movement (when it becomes stiff enough to be nearly solid) and not the direction. It is called the Issac Device and I won't make any comment on it specifically other than saying any US organization that requires a FHR is going to require SFI 38.1 or FIA certification. Isaac Head and Neck Restraint System
Let me see if I understand this correctly. One line in a FAQ and nowhere else anywhere about there previous model for a non-specific claim that isn't part of any specification or certification qualifies a very small manufacturer with limited distribution as a replacement for containment seats? That claim makes Issac Devices look like Einsteinian; they post a graph without supporting data.
Spec Miata often make the cage to accommodate the seat. The bar behind the seat needs to be made when the seat height is known. Containment seats need to be attached to it and that is where the shoulder harnesses will be fastened.
Are you saying that part of the Spec Pinata rules say that the containment seat must be attached in some fashion to the harness bar? Or that as a general principle, a production car should have that setup?
I know that track in the initial video quite well, it's Texas World Speedway. The impact occurred at the exit of T2 (CCW direction). I exit that corner (right where the impact occurred in the video) at about 93 mph in my S2000. I would guess the impact occurred at no less than 85 mph. I was fortunate enough to see this video before I bought my safety equipment and it alone pushed me in the full containment direction. I ended up purchasing an OMP HTE-R 400 full containment seat. It fits my fat a$$ and the car (with some trimming of the right bolster to fit around the trans tunnel). The 400 version of the seat has a slimmer external profile of the containment wings so it doesn't interfere with my roll bar or window.
that sucks. Pushing the way you do, setting the times your setting, it is bound to happen. Glad your OK. If you don't mind, can you post up damage assessment and it's fix? I have not been there in many years but was doing chump races there back in 2011,2012. I went off there a couple times because I couldn't NOT look at the kids bikes/toys in the back yard on the right. The kids bike would be gone after like 90 minutes in the car and I was like "where did he go, he can't get out of the infield of the track"
yeah i have not looked at the full extent of the damage yet if it extends to the chassis yet... we will see once i feel like actually taking it apart more and inspecting it...
Let me see if I understand this correctly. One line in a FAQ and nowhere else anywhere about there previous model for a non-specific claim that isn't part of any specification or certification qualifies a very small manufacturer with limited distribution as a replacement for containment seats? That claim makes Issac Devices look like Einsteinian; they post a graph without supporting data.
NecksGen has additional tethers that prevent lateral movement
Side movement decrease
Yes...frontal head restraints work +/- 30°. For 30° to 130+° on each side you need a containment seat.
Originally Posted by BlueTeg
Are you saying that part of the Spec Pinata rules say that the containment seat must be attached in some fashion to the harness bar? Or that as a general principle, a production car should have that setup?
The rules don't require anything. Both NASA and SCCA specify right side nets, a total placebo. They limit cages to 6 or 8 mounting points. They don't specify seat mounts other than not to sheet metal. SCCA sells the Spec Racer with a chassis that wouldn't meet their current regulations.
The seat to cage is from the seat manufacturers. The harness to the bar is from the harness manufacturers and SFI.
This is a video from Racetech on the needs for the rear brace on the seat. Recaro has reinforced lower mounts but that is a big torque arm the lower mount has to resist.
Note that there are few ways to mount the harness to the cage. But a key requirement is that the seat and the harness mounts move together. Otherwise, the harness can hurt the driver.
Originally Posted by t-o_double_d
yeah i have not looked at the full extent of the damage yet if it extends to the chassis yet... we will see once i feel like actually taking it apart more and inspecting it...
That Spec Miata retubbing thread is new and for me timely. I was in other venues discussing crash damage in Spec Racer Ford, Spec Miata, and Spec E30. In SRF they claim they virtually always can fix the frame. In SM and SE30, apparently minor accidents create a enough kinks that the standard practice is to throw the chassis away and make a new one. Cost seem to be $13k-$20k for that.
For street use the cars could be repaired. But the racers seem to go to a new donor with all the work that entails. Also, those classes don't need to reinstall an interior, A/C, radio, etc.
Originally Posted by Arro
OK, here are my $.02:
I know that track in the initial video quite well, it's Texas World Speedway. The impact occurred at the exit of T2 (CCW direction). I exit that corner (right where the impact occurred in the video) at about 93 mph in my S2000. I would guess the impact occurred at no less than 85 mph. I was fortunate enough to see this video before I bought my safety equipment and it alone pushed me in the full containment direction. I ended up purchasing an OMP HTE-R 400 full containment seat. It fits my fat a$$ and the car (with some trimming of the right bolster to fit around the trans tunnel). The 400 version of the seat has a slimmer external profile of the containment wings so it doesn't interfere with my roll bar or window.
IMG 2036 (Large) IMG 2050 (Large)
That is a great picture.
Some questions:
1) why is the shoulder harness mounted so far behind the seat? That would leave more belt to stretch in a crash (F1, NASCAR mount to the seat). If you look in the Schroth presentation above, they recommend crossing the belts if they are more than 200mm (8 in) behind the seat.
2) Do you have a crotch belt? If so, how did you mount it?
3) Do you use an FHR/HANS device? If so, is that a HANS compatible 'dogbone' harnesss? It looks like it is, but hard to tell in the picture.
4) How did you mount the seat to the car?
5) How do the head restraint wings line up with your helmet? Did you have to add or remove padding to get the height right?
6) how do the wings effect your vision and movement on the street?
1) why is the shoulder harness mounted so far behind the seat? That would leave more belt to stretch in a crash (F1, NASCAR mount to the seat). If you look in the Schroth presentation above, they recommend crossing the belts if they are more than 200mm (8 in) behind the seat.
2) Do you have a crotch belt? If so, how did you mount it?
3) Do you use an FHR/HANS device? If so, is that a HANS compatible 'dogbone' harnesss? It looks like it is, but hard to tell in the picture.
4) How did you mount the seat to the car?
5) How do the head restraint wings line up with your helmet? Did you have to add or remove padding to get the height right?
6) how do the wings effect your vision and movement on the street?
1. The roll bar is a rockstar garage piece and is less than 20" behind my HANS device when I'm in the seat. The current Schroth instructions recommend crossing straps that are anchored >20" from HANS. I'm not sure where you found the 8" dimension. Spacing of the anchor points on the bar is maintained by rubber fuel line with a zip tie holding it in place to provide a non-abrasive surface against the belts. These were not installed yet at the time of the photo.
The guide I used: https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/S..._Checklist.pdf
2. I do have a crotch belt. Both harnesses are Schroth Profi II - 6 points. I used Schroth hardware for all anchor points. The crotch belt anchors are threaded through the floor of the car into the Schroth hardware which is a welded nut to a backing plate.
Note: The outside lap belts on each side are anchored to the OEM seat belt location. I installed the harnesses per Schroth specs in terms of anchoring, bolting, and all relevent angles.
3. Yes, I do wear a HANS device. The driver harness has the 2" shoulder straps for the HANS device. The passenger has 3" shoulder straps for any passengers not wearing a HANS, although I know this is not ideal (for the passenger to be without a HANS). Note: Per Schroth, the 3" shoulder straps are acceptable for HANS use as well so long as it is properly captured by the HANS device.
4. My seat is mounted on reinforced (rewelded) Buddy Club sliders to the OEM mounting holes in the floor. Seats are FIA certified.
5. The head restraint "points" extend to my cheekbones. No padding compensation required - I shopped for a long time for this seat and tried one out in a friend's car before I purchased.
6. The wings affect street vision only moderately. I just have to lean forward a tad to see around them and use my mirror a little more. I didn't find it unsafe and now that the car is strictly track, it is transported on a trailer to/from events.
If you have any more questions, let me know and I'll try to answer them.
03-29-2017, 04:28 PM
