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S2k Stock Vs Sr-t4 Stock
I am starting to see alot of S4ts around my way, and I was wandering which is faster and from which aspect, at a stop, and rolling.
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Originally Posted by TwiztedS2K,Jul 20 2004, 05:21 PM
I am starting to see alot of S4ts around my way, and I was wandering which is faster and from which aspect, at a stop, and rolling.
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I can't wait to see all the positive replies you get from this one. :rolleyes: I wonder if the 350z is faster? :banghead:
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SRT4 seems stronger, well, because it is. The new one dynoes at what, 240-ish whp? But drivers count a lot, as always.
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If you do a search, you'll find a lot of long threads about this topic.
I've 2 friends with SRT4's, 2003 and a 2004. The 2003 stock was close, but I'd pull ahead as speeds increased. We did a 40 to 110 run a couple of times and I got a car length before shutting down. Since then, my friend upgraded to a Mopar Stage 1 kit and it was enough to turn the table around for him. Now he'd inch ahead slowly and be about a length in front after 100mph. Once I started modding lightly, I was shocked as the tables were turned again in my favor. The 2004 is another matter... when the 04 was stock and my friend w/ the stage 1 ran against each other, the 2004 was still stronger from a roll, albeit small but it was stronger. We all know the new SRT4 has LSD so we did all the runs from a roll. My car in its present shape is about on par with my other friend's 04 SRT4 in stock trim, however we never ran beyond 90mph and it's dead even till then. I'd imagine that he may pull on me if we could safely up the speeds (which we can't since our roads look like the surface of the moon). |
Originally Posted by yellafeva,Jul 20 2004, 04:41 PM
SRT4 seems stronger, well, because it is. The new one dynoes at what, 240-ish whp? But drivers count a lot, as always.
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[QUOTE=yellafeva,Jul 20 2004, 06:41 PM]SRT4 seems stronger, well, because it is.
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Want a tip? Race turbocharged cars in the most humid and hot weather you can, during the day. It is a night and day difference, seriously.
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Actually, the SRT4's ECU is very good at maintaining performance in all kinds of weather conditions. High altitudes or sea level, high humidity or low humidity, it's quite interesting that the SRT4 manages very well to all kinds of conditions. I've been through a few things here and there regarding the SRT4 (because I'm interested in the engine, not the car). There's been a few dyno tests that show that the SRT4 hp #'s are quite consistent in all sorts of conditions.
If you want to beat a... 03 model, take it from a complete stop. 03 SRT4 has no LSD, nuff said. 04 model, a run from a roll is your best chance. modded 03-04, good luck. "I hate to admit it, but we're talking NA versus boost and it takes way less effort in boosted cars to up the power than NA". |
Originally Posted by Hyper-X,Jul 21 2004, 01:36 AM
Actually, the SRT4's ECU is very good at maintaining performance in all kinds of weather conditions. High altitudes or sea level, high humidity or low humidity, it's quite interesting that the SRT4 manages very well to all kinds of conditions. I've been through a few things here and there regarding the SRT4 (because I'm interested in the engine, not the car). There's been a few dyno tests that show that the SRT4 hp #'s are quite consistent in all sorts of conditions.
If you want to beat a... 03 model, take it from a complete stop. 03 SRT4 has no LSD, nuff said. 04 model, a run from a roll is your best chance. modded 03-04, good luck. "I hate to admit it, but we're talking NA versus boost and it takes way less effort in boosted cars to up the power than NA". |
Guys, I hate to say it but stock vs stock the SRT-4 will beat you both from a dig and from a roll. Even the 2003 should beable to hold you off from a dig unless the driver sucks.
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The 03 and 04 are very different in terms of the numbers they produce on the dyno and the times/trap speeds they make on the 1/4 mile.
The 03 isn't hard to beat, but it takes time to pull away because of the S2k being NA. My friend was powershifting (I wasn't) during our runs and the results were the same. I'm not that good of a driver (pretty average I think), and although I didn't miss a shift, I did shift close to 9k without hitting the limiter. From a dig, any car has a chance since it's harder to launch the S2k than any FWD car, however put 2 decent drivers against each other where both launch well... the S2000 will get the jump off the line. (that's what happens when you have power going to the wrong wheels, and/or going to only 1 wheel) From what I've seen in the past (1/4 mile), they're pretty close. |
03 srt-4's will pull 2.1 60ft times all day long with a decent driver on stock OEM tires.
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Originally Posted by Fishey,Jul 21 2004, 08:09 AM
Guys, I hate to say it but stock vs stock the SRT-4 will beat you both from a dig and from a roll. Even the 2003 should beable to hold you off from a dig unless the driver sucks.
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Originally Posted by Fishey,Jul 21 2004, 12:01 PM
03 srt-4's will pull 2.1 60ft times all day long with a decent driver on stock OEM tires.
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The s2k isn't a drag car guys but it can hold its own I'm sure. It would be a drivers race I'm guessing as most races are. Remember at the end of the day your driving home a s2k!! and the other driver is driving a..........
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Dudes, when we're talking about cars that dyno considerably more yet weigh nearly the same, they should be faster. But c'mon, any forced induction car is no jokes.
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Originally Posted by blessed,Jul 20 2004, 11:16 PM
Come on guy's?! :confused: Your gonna sit there and say the srt is faster??! Once modded, YES...but stock? NO! It's a better race with the 04', then the 03' because of more horsepower and lsd, but still. A properly driven S will pull away from an 03' by at least a car or two, and the 04' should be a very good race, but if the S is driven right (and not just in VTEC at the start) up top (i.e. 4th and 5th) the S will slowly start to walk away. I know no1 likes or has the oppertunity to run that high up but that's where you'll pull.There boost tapers off a bit from about 5700-6500rpm, so this dosen't effect them as much in 1-2-3rd gears because there not stuck inbetween 5700 - 6500 for long, but up top in 4th and 5th the'll be sitting there for some time...and if there only boosting 11-12 psi as apposed to 14-15, when your sitting at 8300rpm's in prime power mode...there goes there HP advantage...then the S's top end (6 speed) comes into play and inches away. At best i'll give it "A drivers race", but that dosen't automaticaly mean the S looses! I would say a good driver vs another good driver = the S2000 1/2 a car up. And out the hole...it's over...I know some people don't like to launch there cars hard and all, but when it comes to cars that are that close in performance you might need to launch vtec. Plus we have the advantage when it comes to every shift... when they shift, there boost takes a split second to build back up, we shift and were just, off+on=out! Which should give us the momentum. Now once you start talking about modded there's no question in my mind that the srt will win then, but stock, I say NO! You have to know about the car your racing, and where it's weak spots are also..why do you think in my 04' vs s video I speed up and control where the race starts, because I know that that neon is gonna be sitting in 2nd at 30mph and im gonna be right there about to explode into the lead in 1st (not to mention there boost takes a second to build anyways)...you do the math...SRT-4 in 2nd with a slight hesitation because of boost, and our S2000's in 1st right about to hit vtec, we jump out front, and the srt isan't gonna catch and pass us by 4th gear which is where we take back the advantage again! I'll bet on an S2 all day long! And just for reference check out my run with an 04' again...
http://home.earthlink.net/~matchframe/images/ Sorry for the long post, just had to vent my 2 cents about these F***ing neons, and all the credit they get!...im still to loose to a srt, any year! |
Originally Posted by Diomedes,Jul 21 2004, 10:13 AM
Srt4's are sick. I'm pretty sure the 1/4 mile times heavily favor the SRT4 by .4 or .6 of a second.
Modded SRT4 (or anything packing boost) are going to be hard to keep up with anything NA, however stock trim is a completely different story. A completely stock SRT4 isn't hard to beat, it just takes time. Considering they're packing almost a half liter advantage AND boost, they're really not that quick from what I can see. I mean, if my stock ride had a 2.4L turbocharged engine and I couldn't smoke a car packing a 2.0L NA engine, I wouldn't think too highly of my car at that point. Supercharge a stock S2000 conservatively and no stock SRT4 can keep up anymore... what does that say about the SRT4 then? FWIW, the Mopar 2.4L-T along with its ECU is good stuff. I've seen some detailed information to the inner workings and I must say it was made well. I just wish it wasn't in that chassis... kinda feel bad for the motor. |
I raced a 04 last weekend, from a roll 30mph we were dead even until he miss shifted in third :hello: . At the light i ask if it was stock and he replied "yes" i ask him he wants to run me off the line he said "no". As the light turn green i just turn left and went home :(. BTW im stock.
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Whatever the outcome those neons are fast and they deserve to be respected. They will give us a hard time and keep up with us till the cows come home at half the price :cry:
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Whose S2000 cost $40,000 that you know of? Because my brand new 03 sure didn't! :hello:
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Originally Posted by bunjimobile,Jul 22 2004, 07:31 AM
Whatever the outcome those neons are fast and they deserve to be respected. They will give us a hard time and keep up with us till the cows come home at half the price :cry:
This two cars are built with different purpose, the S2000 is a drivers car, the neon is not. ;) I don't see any stock* neon beating any stock* S2000 in the track any time soon ;) |
Originally Posted by JWILL,Jul 22 2004, 05:54 AM
Whose S2000 cost $40,000 that you know of? Because my brand new 03 sure didn't! :hello:
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Originally Posted by BruteHareS2k,Jul 22 2004, 06:26 AM
In a drag race. WOW! :rolleyes: :LOL:
This two cars are built with different purpose, the S2000 is a drivers car, the neon is not. ;) I don't see any stock* neon beating any stock* S2000 in the track any time soon ;) |
350Z a torque monster? I guess everyone's definition of the words are different.
A blown 426 Hemi-Cuda is my idea of a T-monster, not some 2.4L turbo SRT4 or 350Z anything. |
Well compared to an S2000.............they have a huge advantage over us when it comes to torque. Lots of reviews have described those two cars(350Z and SRT-4) as having an abundance of torque. Either ways the main thing is that the SRT-4 is not something you should despise or look down on.
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Originally Posted by SilverKnight,Jul 21 2004, 05:42 PM
The s2k isn't a drag car guys but it can hold its own I'm sure. It would be a drivers race I'm guessing as most races are. Remember at the end of the day your driving home a s2k!! and the other driver is driving a..........
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This is an S2K forum...what answers would be expected....
I can tell you this...I have seen a decent number of S2K's around here lately...yet never can get one to play...nor every have I seen one at the strip. SRT-4's, everytime...which to me means one group is much more into the straight line thing and it should naturally hand the other group it tail. |
Its not all about a stupid drag race. Probably I see things differently because Im a driver.
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Originally Posted by bunjimobile,Jul 22 2004, 05:27 PM
Well compared to an S2000.............they have a huge advantage over us when it comes to torque. Lots of reviews have described those two cars(350Z and SRT-4) as having an abundance of torque. Either ways the main thing is that the SRT-4 is not something you should despise or look down on.
You could have all the torque and still not perform. I've said this many times in many threads that it's the total balance of things that determine which car is better than the next. A diesel truck has more torque than most supercharged S2000's, but the S2000 can still come up on top. Here's my point... since torque seems to be the issue here, considering the S2000's 2 liter engine is being compared to a 3.5L V6... the Z isn't significantly faster than the S to justify displacing a whole 1.5L and 2 more cylinders. The same could be said about the SRT4 having .4L of displacement advantage and boost isn't freakishly faster than the 2.0L VTEC. People seem to forget that the 2.0L VTEC F20C in the S2000 is doing all of its work from a "torqueless" engine, yet cars with displacement advantages ranging from .4L to 1.5L plus turbo can't smoke the S2000 with those crutches. Suppose the S2000 was a 2.0L turbocharged car from the factory. If my car can't significantly smoke a NA 1.6L car, that'd really put me in my place. |
:iagree:
Well the 350Z and the SRT-4 are in the same performance category as the S2000 I think (0-60@5.5-5.8). Neither car can give the other a smack down(1/4 mile@14-14.2) but cars with higher torque are definitely easier to drive fast and allow more room for mistake than cars that have low torque. Thats was just my experience. Either ways we all agree here that the S2000 is an excellent car but we can't deny the fact that the 350Z and the SRT-4 are great cars as well. |
Originally Posted by blessed,Jul 20 2004, 08:16 PM
Plus we have the advantage when it comes to every shift... when they shift, there boost takes a split second to build back up, we shift and were just, off+on=out!
It's a driver's race |
Well the 350Z and the SRT-4 are in the same performance category as the S2000 I think (0-60@5.5-5.8). Neither car can give the other a smack down(1/4 mile@14-14.2) but cars with higher torque are definitely easier to drive fast and allow more room for mistake than cars that have low torque. Thats was just my experience. Either ways we all agree here that the S2000 is an excellent car but we can't deny the fact that the 350Z and the SRT-4 are great cars as well. |
[QUOTE=1sweet00SS,Jul 23 2004, 05:03 PM]FYI there is no boost loss if you WOT shift an SRT.
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[QUOTE=blessed,Jul 23 2004, 09:59 PM] I wonder how much it cost for a new SRT-4 tranny..??
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Originally Posted by 1sweet00SS,Jul 24 2004, 09:06 AM
Nothing so far :) . I know many people including myself who ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wot shift while racing. I have yet to hear of anyone having tranny issues. The trannies in SRTs are very strong. Only problem I have heard of related to trannies is a couple local guys had to upgrade their stock clutch.
There a great bang for your buck no doubt, but we'll see how they hold up in a few years before I believe there "trannies are strong"...whatever, not flaming, just making a point. |
Originally Posted by blessed,Jul 24 2004, 11:52 AM
You make it sound like the car is 7 years old and has been powershifted a million times...they came out in 03, remember that...
There a great bang for your buck no doubt, but we'll see how they hold up in a few years before I believe there "trannies are strong"...whatever, not flaming, just making a point. BTW, another thing you misstated in your first post....... stock SRTs DO NOT rev to 6500 rpms. Red line is 6000 rpms and fuel cut off is set at 6200 rpms. Also, turbo lag is almost nonexistent. Unlike a WRX, a stock SRTs torque will peak at 2800 rpms! No flaming intendied, but you are posting a lot of misinformation about the SRT, which maybe explains why you believe a S2000 should always win. One more thing, because boost tapers off around 5500 - 5700 rpms, most everyone I know WOT shifts at 5500 rpms.... Therefore, there is no boost loss between shifts, and you shift before boost tapers off up top (counter points to two of the major issues why you say the S2000 should be faster). Again, it's all about the driver. These two cars are a driver's race plain and simple and neither should always win..... they are just too close in straight line speed when stock. Now throw some turns in there, and an S2000 will spank a stock SRT. |
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