S2K vs Camaro Z28??
05-07-2001, 06:51 AM
#21
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Not to pick a fight, but you can make a full size truck pull a .91 on a skid pad. Just keep making the contact patch wider and wider until you achieve the later acceleration you want. What does the SS do in a slalom? Try to start throwing that big pig back and forth a couple of times and see what weight transfer does for that .91g.
05-08-2001, 03:42 PM
#23
Does the SS weigh less then the Z28? Edmunds says that a 2001 Z28 weighs 3439lbs. My roommate has a 97 LT1 that I believe weights like 3500lbs, maybe more. I can't remember the number. SSinful, did you weigh your car? I'm assuming you did, do you have some weight reducers? So that would be about 300 more lbs then a Z06 which is 10%, which is a lot.
The 2001 S2000 weighs 2809 lbs according to Edmunds. That is a huge difference, and I'm willing to bet that our chassis is much stiffer then a Z28s, and it really doesn't matter how many gs you are pulling. If I remember correctly, R&T has a section in the back that has all the stats on cars they have tested. The S2000 runs the slalom much faster then the Z28, and I THINK edged the Z06.
Now on which car would win would depend on the type of track saying they are driven by the "same" driver. A track that allowed higher speeds through the corners would be an advantage to the S2000 since we wouldn't get crushed by the lack of torque or hp. If the turns got slower, where there was a need for torque out of the corners, the SS or Z28 would have the advantage.
I have talked to my roommate about these suspension mods you keep talking about, and most of the people he talks to think they aren't really worth the cost. I'll get him on here to shed some knowledge.
ERIK
The 2001 S2000 weighs 2809 lbs according to Edmunds. That is a huge difference, and I'm willing to bet that our chassis is much stiffer then a Z28s, and it really doesn't matter how many gs you are pulling. If I remember correctly, R&T has a section in the back that has all the stats on cars they have tested. The S2000 runs the slalom much faster then the Z28, and I THINK edged the Z06.
Now on which car would win would depend on the type of track saying they are driven by the "same" driver. A track that allowed higher speeds through the corners would be an advantage to the S2000 since we wouldn't get crushed by the lack of torque or hp. If the turns got slower, where there was a need for torque out of the corners, the SS or Z28 would have the advantage.
I have talked to my roommate about these suspension mods you keep talking about, and most of the people he talks to think they aren't really worth the cost. I'll get him on here to shed some knowledge.
ERIK
05-08-2001, 05:39 PM
#24
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First of all, we have an S2000 and a '98 Z28 with about $15K in mods. Even a Z28 stock WILL beat an S2000 every which way---even with a lousy driver. The cars are both fun, they are just different types of fun. We choose which car to drive on the weekends depending on the mood that we are in. For street stomping, tire-burning, hell-raising fun, it's the Camaro. For everything else- we drive the S2000. From a performance standpoint, the Camaro wins, but the S2000 is an all around nicer car. The S2000 biggest advantage is it's weight when driving around---you can really throw the car around and it is easily recoverable when put into slides. We are planning on participating in both auto-cross (with the S2000) and road racing (with the Camaro). I just wanted to put in my two cents worth--since I own both cars.
05-11-2001, 05:11 PM
#29
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My, this is still going.
#1 - An LS1 car has a lot more motor and in any contest that involves the gas pedal, its an advantage. Whether or not it can make up its handling deficit (yes, I said it) compared to an S2K is another story, 1LE hardtops included. Really depends on the venue. Drag racing, top speed? LS1 all the way, I don't care if its a convertible automatic. Auto-x? I'll take the S2K 9 times out of 10. Road course, see #2, but it's a toss up.
#2 - The track comparison has pretty much been done. Thunderhill, Steve Millen, SS about 1 second quicker per lap. Here's a track map
http://www.galaxy3.com/trackmaphr.html
Whatever you want to say about R&T, Steve Millen is a pro and drove both cars. Don't know if he ran them back to back, but those are the results. BTW, these were laps in the 2:16-2:17 range. Thunderhill is a long track, almost 3 miles in the configuration R&T had to use. There are 4 straights of significant length, two are around 1500 ft and one is 2100 ft! The 2100 ft straight comes after a relatively tight double right and one 1500 ft straight comes after a hard left followed by some quick esses. Now considering that an SS can put between 1/2 and 1 second on an S2000 in the quarter and that advantage grows as speed climbs, where do you think the SS made its time at Thunderhill? The S2K is a better braker and handler (there, I said it again), but to ask it to make up what had to easily be 2 seconds on those straights is too much. Even if the S2K carried 5 mph more speed onto the straights, the SS would still have passed it before the next braking zone.
#3 - Go look the showroom stock results again. Two different drivers, who AFAIK rarely, if ever, competed in the same race. Between them, at least two wins, a pole and some fastest laps. And a 4th in the finals of a how many race season? Tony Swan may have thought he was outclassed, but this was the first year for the S2K to compete and Tony, while better than most, is not a world class driver. There has been no development and its the only convertible in a field of hardtops, requiring extra weight to be added to compete (in the form of a hardtop) and the SCCA required a relatively high minimum weight. Considering they were making at best 65% of the power of the LS1s, that says something. The toughest thing about competing with a relatively low powered car isn't running faster laps, its passing, because if the guy in front of you is going too slow, then you may get out of your power band, and if he's got a monster motor, he'll pull away again when the road straightens out. Even worse, if another one of those guys is behind you when you get caught up, he'll likely get around you too.
UL
BTW, the Mercedes SL500 automatic, with a mere 300 hp and nearly 2 tons of mass, was 0.5 seconds faster per lap than the SS! Where do you think it performed best? Maybe on those long high speed straights where that autobahn gearing and great aero properties could come into play? Always look at the venue.
#1 - An LS1 car has a lot more motor and in any contest that involves the gas pedal, its an advantage. Whether or not it can make up its handling deficit (yes, I said it) compared to an S2K is another story, 1LE hardtops included. Really depends on the venue. Drag racing, top speed? LS1 all the way, I don't care if its a convertible automatic. Auto-x? I'll take the S2K 9 times out of 10. Road course, see #2, but it's a toss up.
#2 - The track comparison has pretty much been done. Thunderhill, Steve Millen, SS about 1 second quicker per lap. Here's a track map
http://www.galaxy3.com/trackmaphr.html
Whatever you want to say about R&T, Steve Millen is a pro and drove both cars. Don't know if he ran them back to back, but those are the results. BTW, these were laps in the 2:16-2:17 range. Thunderhill is a long track, almost 3 miles in the configuration R&T had to use. There are 4 straights of significant length, two are around 1500 ft and one is 2100 ft! The 2100 ft straight comes after a relatively tight double right and one 1500 ft straight comes after a hard left followed by some quick esses. Now considering that an SS can put between 1/2 and 1 second on an S2000 in the quarter and that advantage grows as speed climbs, where do you think the SS made its time at Thunderhill? The S2K is a better braker and handler (there, I said it again), but to ask it to make up what had to easily be 2 seconds on those straights is too much. Even if the S2K carried 5 mph more speed onto the straights, the SS would still have passed it before the next braking zone.
#3 - Go look the showroom stock results again. Two different drivers, who AFAIK rarely, if ever, competed in the same race. Between them, at least two wins, a pole and some fastest laps. And a 4th in the finals of a how many race season? Tony Swan may have thought he was outclassed, but this was the first year for the S2K to compete and Tony, while better than most, is not a world class driver. There has been no development and its the only convertible in a field of hardtops, requiring extra weight to be added to compete (in the form of a hardtop) and the SCCA required a relatively high minimum weight. Considering they were making at best 65% of the power of the LS1s, that says something. The toughest thing about competing with a relatively low powered car isn't running faster laps, its passing, because if the guy in front of you is going too slow, then you may get out of your power band, and if he's got a monster motor, he'll pull away again when the road straightens out. Even worse, if another one of those guys is behind you when you get caught up, he'll likely get around you too.
UL
BTW, the Mercedes SL500 automatic, with a mere 300 hp and nearly 2 tons of mass, was 0.5 seconds faster per lap than the SS! Where do you think it performed best? Maybe on those long high speed straights where that autobahn gearing and great aero properties could come into play? Always look at the venue.
05-12-2001, 05:08 PM
#30
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Uh no.... I've handed every Z28 I've raced their collective hat and at speeds 80 to 138 I was way ahead and he even said he was trying, roaring from behind, NOT! I've also beaten a 00' SS short distances and till' 90 where he made the exit, the first race I let him lead till he was two car lengths in front of me and I found it hard pressed to catch up, but eventually I did, at the next light I caught him off guard. and he could not pass me only a little till I regained VTEC, SC the S2K and say bye, bye V8's