2nd Gear Grind Service Encounter
10-14-2000, 02:36 PM
#11
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John, you really need a better dealer. Last week (Saturday) We took the car in for an oil change and inspection sticker (yes it has been a year already) and casually mentioned the service bulletin and asked if he knew anything about it. He said he did and asked if we had the problem. I explained that it had only happened to me a couple of times and it was not a big problem for us (especially the way Ronie drives). While we were talking he was entering stuff in his terminal, I thought for the oil change write-up. When he was done he had me sign the service order for the oil change and informed me that they would call me to schedule an appointment for the transmission service as soon as the parts came in. Meanwhile, the parts manager had seen us talking and came over with the info on the hard top which he had just received. These guys are really good to deal with and we are extremely happy with our service experience to date. See you next Saturday?
10-14-2000, 03:28 PM
#12
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Mikey,
It is not quite that easy to reproduce the grind in my car. It's there, as the TSB states, intermittently, once the box is at a certain temp. Lucky you, no problem convincing your H dealer!
Larry,
Yes. I probably do need another dealer. I bought five Accords from these people, a 2000 EX-V6 just 1 month ago. They would not even talk to me when I was in the hunt for the S. Their prices are better than most in the area, so I always end up there. The service has always been exceptional, but they are conservative when it comes down to authorizing warranty work.
I am satisfied that they are doing the TSB for me. Believe me, calling Honda Zone or National is no treat either. These people were no help at all!
See you next Saturday for sure.
It is not quite that easy to reproduce the grind in my car. It's there, as the TSB states, intermittently, once the box is at a certain temp. Lucky you, no problem convincing your H dealer!
Larry,
Yes. I probably do need another dealer. I bought five Accords from these people, a 2000 EX-V6 just 1 month ago. They would not even talk to me when I was in the hunt for the S. Their prices are better than most in the area, so I always end up there. The service has always been exceptional, but they are conservative when it comes down to authorizing warranty work.
I am satisfied that they are doing the TSB for me. Believe me, calling Honda Zone or National is no treat either. These people were no help at all!
See you next Saturday for sure.
10-14-2000, 04:11 PM
#13
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Isn't unbelivable that we all have to TRY and recreate the grind for theese guys? I spend my time trying not to grind and I go to my dealership and have to drive around with a guy trying to make it grind. This crap should really stop. The bulletin is out the problem exists JUST fix it!!
10-14-2000, 04:35 PM
#14
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Mindcore,
I am also in the software business, a bug fixer. I am a software sustaining engineer and am assigned only the most obscure, difficult to reproduce, and once in a life time kind of bugs.
I understand the meaning of intermittent failure. These kind of problems are sometimes impossible to recreate at the customer site and especially, in the engineering lab.
If a specific problem has already been identified by engineering, and a known fix is available, we insist that the customer install the "fix" prior to investing additional effort. Resources are not wasted and 99% of the time the customer is very satisfied.
Why can't the automotive industry adopt some of these processes and practices developed by the computer industry?
I am also in the software business, a bug fixer. I am a software sustaining engineer and am assigned only the most obscure, difficult to reproduce, and once in a life time kind of bugs.
I understand the meaning of intermittent failure. These kind of problems are sometimes impossible to recreate at the customer site and especially, in the engineering lab.
If a specific problem has already been identified by engineering, and a known fix is available, we insist that the customer install the "fix" prior to investing additional effort. Resources are not wasted and 99% of the time the customer is very satisfied.
Why can't the automotive industry adopt some of these processes and practices developed by the computer industry?
10-14-2000, 04:49 PM
#15
Originally posted by honda_s2k:
If a specific problem has already been identified by engineering, and a known fix is available, we insist that the customer install the "fix" prior to investing additional effort. Resources are not wasted and 99% of the time the customer is very satisfied.
Why can't the automotive industry adopt some of these processes and practices developed by the computer industry?
If a specific problem has already been identified by engineering, and a known fix is available, we insist that the customer install the "fix" prior to investing additional effort. Resources are not wasted and 99% of the time the customer is very satisfied.
Why can't the automotive industry adopt some of these processes and practices developed by the computer industry?
10-14-2000, 04:55 PM
#16
Former Moderator
Not to defend Honda as I believe they should fix any S2K that has this problem, but likening this to the s/w industry isn't fair. When someone calls about a problem with s/w that you know about you probably direct them to your website and have them d/l the patch. Problem solved 99.9% of the time. NO COST to either party. This is a different scenario altogether. It costs Honda money every time they have to fix one of these. Again, I'm not defending Honda, I think they should spend the money no questions asked. However, comparing this to a situation that doesn't cost anything isn't fair to Honda. If the tranny fix were free I'm sure it would have been available a year ago.
10-14-2000, 05:38 PM
#17
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Wrong.
This is not any different from distributing a copy of the code that resolves a problem.
Identifying, reproducing, recoding, testing, documenting, auditing, packaging, and distribution of the fix are not trivial efforts and are all expensive efforts. In the extreme case, hundreds of man-hours could be the cost!
Just because your code fix is a 30 second download away doesn't mean it was a piece of cake to shoot!
Honda is correct and is employing good business practices in attempting to filter out those owners who would like the latest fix, whether they need it or not. But, if a vendor has a known fix for a problem that you are reporting, wouldn't you like to be taken seriously?
And shouldn't some consideration be given to those owners who have discovered the "bug" in Release 1 (9/99), reported the problem multiple times, and could not get a level two engineer(a Honda tech) interested enough early on to take a ride with you?
This is not any different from distributing a copy of the code that resolves a problem.
Identifying, reproducing, recoding, testing, documenting, auditing, packaging, and distribution of the fix are not trivial efforts and are all expensive efforts. In the extreme case, hundreds of man-hours could be the cost!
Just because your code fix is a 30 second download away doesn't mean it was a piece of cake to shoot!
Honda is correct and is employing good business practices in attempting to filter out those owners who would like the latest fix, whether they need it or not. But, if a vendor has a known fix for a problem that you are reporting, wouldn't you like to be taken seriously?
And shouldn't some consideration be given to those owners who have discovered the "bug" in Release 1 (9/99), reported the problem multiple times, and could not get a level two engineer(a Honda tech) interested enough early on to take a ride with you?
10-14-2000, 05:47 PM
#18
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Sounds like we might be getting a little OT here?
The key to getting good service is building an effective relationship with a good dealership's service manager, and possibly the zone office. Of course easier said than done, but very effective.
The key to getting good service is building an effective relationship with a good dealership's service manager, and possibly the zone office. Of course easier said than done, but very effective.
10-14-2000, 06:11 PM
#19
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Originally posted by pfb:
Sounds like we might be getting a little OT here?
The key to getting good service is building an effective relationship with a good dealership's service manager, and possibly the zone office. Of course easier said than done, but very effective.
Sounds like we might be getting a little OT here?
The key to getting good service is building an effective relationship with a good dealership's service manager, and possibly the zone office. Of course easier said than done, but very effective.
Sometimes, the "key" is not easy to aquire. I made my best attempt. It didn't happen.
10-14-2000, 06:41 PM
#20
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I'll just leave this post here, since it started out as a relevant topic, and I don't think the argument will go on too long. If it does, then I'll just move it to OT.
Jay
Jay