AP1 vs AP2 question for the father of the S2K (2007)
03-09-2018, 05:49 PM
#1
Thread Starter
AP1 vs AP2 question for the father of the S2K (2007)
the thread was closed cause it got too heated, but as time passes wounds between the two camps heal, and its always good to reminisce.
AP1 vs AP2 question for the father of the S2K
AP1 vs AP2 question for the father of the S2K
03-09-2018, 08:42 PM
#2
So people really believed this story?
03-10-2018, 07:29 AM
#4
If there was a video of this specific interaction then I'd believe it.
03-10-2018, 09:24 AM
#5
Total Ap1 US sales for the 4 years of production, (2000-2003 MY), were 37,451- for an average of 9,362 per year.
Total Ap2 sales in the US for the 6 years of production, (2004-2009 MY), were just 29,096 - for an average of 4,849 per year, just over half the average annual sales of the ap1.
(Data from Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S2000).
Some might say that the decision to soften the car, and increase the torque a bit, was a bad marketing decision that set the the course for the ultimate failure of the s2k in the market place. Others would say the changes were not a cause of the market failure. I have no doubt there were many factors. But, no one really knows for sure if the ap2 changes played a role.
Of course, its not surprising that the Honda designers and marketing team would take the view that the ap2 changes were a major step forward for the car. After all, the ap2 represented their collective professional effort to break out of the small but reliable niche they carved out with the ap1. Sadly, their efforts were not successful - they lost any competitive edge they had developed in a small niche of the roadster market with the ap1, and ultimately the car had to be dropped.
I suspect the vast majority of the S2ki community would vote in favor of the ap2 as the "superior" car in a poll. From my personal perspective, I say more power to them, it has a tendency to keep the supply of of the ap1 model high, and that keeps the prices a bit lower. That is a good thing from my perspective for now - because I am a recent ap1 buyer. Down the road I will likely be a seller, or my children may be. It will be interesting to see how the ap1 and the ap2 prices morph over the next 20 years. Maybe I'll live to see a day when the ap1 is bringing more than the ap2? That is my gamble. My kids will reap the gains if it turns out that I made a good bet.
As far as objectively determining whether the ap1 or the ap2 is the superior vehicle? Frankly, it is a pointless debate because, as the old saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." We all have our own personal views regarding which version we prefer and we can certainly share our opinions and new buyers can read them and consider them. Beyond that - what is the point? Seems to me we have spilled enough ink on topic all over these pages. I am as guilty as the next guy in that regard.
Total Ap2 sales in the US for the 6 years of production, (2004-2009 MY), were just 29,096 - for an average of 4,849 per year, just over half the average annual sales of the ap1.
(Data from Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S2000).
Some might say that the decision to soften the car, and increase the torque a bit, was a bad marketing decision that set the the course for the ultimate failure of the s2k in the market place. Others would say the changes were not a cause of the market failure. I have no doubt there were many factors. But, no one really knows for sure if the ap2 changes played a role.
Of course, its not surprising that the Honda designers and marketing team would take the view that the ap2 changes were a major step forward for the car. After all, the ap2 represented their collective professional effort to break out of the small but reliable niche they carved out with the ap1. Sadly, their efforts were not successful - they lost any competitive edge they had developed in a small niche of the roadster market with the ap1, and ultimately the car had to be dropped.
I suspect the vast majority of the S2ki community would vote in favor of the ap2 as the "superior" car in a poll. From my personal perspective, I say more power to them, it has a tendency to keep the supply of of the ap1 model high, and that keeps the prices a bit lower. That is a good thing from my perspective for now - because I am a recent ap1 buyer. Down the road I will likely be a seller, or my children may be. It will be interesting to see how the ap1 and the ap2 prices morph over the next 20 years. Maybe I'll live to see a day when the ap1 is bringing more than the ap2? That is my gamble. My kids will reap the gains if it turns out that I made a good bet.
As far as objectively determining whether the ap1 or the ap2 is the superior vehicle? Frankly, it is a pointless debate because, as the old saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." We all have our own personal views regarding which version we prefer and we can certainly share our opinions and new buyers can read them and consider them. Beyond that - what is the point? Seems to me we have spilled enough ink on topic all over these pages. I am as guilty as the next guy in that regard.
Last edited by rpg51; 03-10-2018 at 10:48 AM.
03-11-2018, 07:15 AM
#6
Thread Starter
typical answer from the social media zombies generation.
this was the first ever S2000 home coming meet in 2007 when the first smart phone was barely a year old. so no viral videos, all you have are stories to read and if your lucky non hd pictures to fuel your imagination. if you want a pic of me and uehara-san next to my car along with the signed hat thats the best I got.
here's some more reading for you and make sure your HADD doesn't get in the way cause this gen x'er only has ADD.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/california-southern-california-s2000-owners-16/largest-meet-world-s2000-homecoming-507854/
https://youtu.be/X79LjEUA1_c
this was the first ever S2000 home coming meet in 2007 when the first smart phone was barely a year old. so no viral videos, all you have are stories to read and if your lucky non hd pictures to fuel your imagination. if you want a pic of me and uehara-san next to my car along with the signed hat thats the best I got.
here's some more reading for you and make sure your HADD doesn't get in the way cause this gen x'er only has ADD.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/california-southern-california-s2000-owners-16/largest-meet-world-s2000-homecoming-507854/
https://youtu.be/X79LjEUA1_c
03-11-2018, 07:45 AM
#7
Nah, I'm an old fart that falls into the "take everything you read on the Internet with a large grain of salt" camp. People were making things up long before social media (or the Internet for that matter) were even a thing.
Nice try.
Nice try.
Trending Topics
03-11-2018, 08:07 AM
#8
Thread Starter
words to live by, if you didn't live it.
03-11-2018, 08:38 AM
#9
here's some more reading for you and make sure your HADD doesn't get in the way cause this gen x'er only has ADD.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/california-southern-california-s2000-owners-16/largest-meet-world-s2000-homecoming-507854/
https://youtu.be/X79LjEUA1_c
I think you are missing the point. No one is saying the statements were not made. The skepticism has more to do with whether the statements should be credited as anything more than marketing hype. The company was trying to market the ap2 at the time, not the ap1. How would it look if the designer of the cars starting reporting at huge marketing events that actually the ap1 was the better car? Its the equivalent of the mumbo jumbo hype that we used to read in the glossy Honda sales literature back in the day to persuade us that we should by the latest and greatest model because of all the improvements and latest technology on the new model.
I think we s2k lovers should stick together and sing the praises of all s2ks, not divide and argue among ourselves. Might be a good approach on a national political level too?
Last edited by rpg51; 03-11-2018 at 08:43 AM.
03-11-2018, 08:44 AM
#10
Thread Starter
I tried, but I could not wade through all 149 pages of the thread you link us to. I'm assuming you are using the thread to persuade us that there was an event and you did attend and the statements you relate by the designer of the S2k were actually as you have related.
I think you are missing the point. No one is saying the statements were not made. The skepticism has more to do with whether the statements should be credited as anything more than marketing hype. The company was trying to market the ap2 at the time, not the ap1. How would it look if the designer of the cars starting reporting at huge marketing events that actually the ap1 was the better car? Its the equivalent of the mumbo jumbo hype that we used to read in the glossy Honda sales literature back in the day to persuade us that we should by the latest and greatest model because of all the improvements and latest technology on the new model.
I think you are missing the point. No one is saying the statements were not made. The skepticism has more to do with whether the statements should be credited as anything more than marketing hype. The company was trying to market the ap2 at the time, not the ap1. How would it look if the designer of the cars starting reporting at huge marketing events that actually the ap1 was the better car? Its the equivalent of the mumbo jumbo hype that we used to read in the glossy Honda sales literature back in the day to persuade us that we should by the latest and greatest model because of all the improvements and latest technology on the new model.
also he's not talking to a publication but an owner. there was no need to give a corporate answer to my question.
