Honda S2000 Definitely Never Coming Back, Honda Exec Says
02-14-2018, 09:28 AM
#21
The automotive industry has changed. It's not about the romance and pleasure of motoring anymore. The average person could not care less about that. They want low fuel consumption, space and automated features. Connectivity is more important to people than handling and performance. Look at the idiot commercials these days "real people, not actors" lol - makes me puke (seriously hate those commercials). There are a few manufactures making some driver focused vehicles (BMW M2, Alfa Giulia Quad, Audi RS3, Porsche GT4/Boxsters/Cayman etc) but from that list there are very few that offer a manual. The Miata is probably the last of this type of open roof rear drive simple, light weight - and they are in it still because they own that market. Also, these safety regulations are making it difficult to produce small vehicles. Miata's have done well with styling still with that in mind but look at the new Alfa roadster - TERRIBLE - they all need to have the front ends so elevated now that it ruins that low sleek look. Look at any new vehicle these days - front end elevated for pedestrian collision regulations. I think Mercedes has completely ruined most of their front ends trying to get clever with designs around that.... I'm rambling... hold on to your S2000's folks. They will NEVER make anything like it again and to get anything exhilarating and driver focused these days you will have to spend at least 60k.
02-14-2018, 11:07 AM
#22
02-16-2018, 07:45 AM
#23
The automotive industry has changed. It's not about the romance and pleasure of motoring anymore. The average person could not care less about that. They want low fuel consumption, space and automated features. Connectivity is more important to people than handling and performance. Look at the idiot commercials these days "real people, not actors" lol - makes me puke (seriously hate those commercials). There are a few manufactures making some driver focused vehicles (BMW M2, Alfa Giulia Quad, Audi RS3, Porsche GT4/Boxsters/Cayman etc) but from that list there are very few that offer a manual. The Miata is probably the last of this type of open roof rear drive simple, light weight - and they are in it still because they own that market. Also, these safety regulations are making it difficult to produce small vehicles. Miata's have done well with styling still with that in mind but look at the new Alfa roadster - TERRIBLE - they all need to have the front ends so elevated now that it ruins that low sleek look. Look at any new vehicle these days - front end elevated for pedestrian collision regulations. I think Mercedes has completely ruined most of their front ends trying to get clever with designs around that.... I'm rambling... hold on to your S2000's folks. They will NEVER make anything like it again and to get anything exhilarating and driver focused these days you will have to spend at least 60k.
Toyota is due to reveal the new Supra soon, big announcement coming on March 6 from the Geneva Auto Show. Rumors are light weight and great engine but no manual, a shame.
The S2k is definitely a keeper!
02-16-2018, 01:33 PM
#24
Yes - you're right. And it's supposed to be priced in the 50k range which is awesome. Will be a potential Cayman crusher.
02-16-2018, 06:33 PM
#25
Honda can't stomach low volume cars anymore, we are very lucky that they brought back the NSX, and they really dragged their heels on that one marketing it years before it came to market. They used to say that Honda had more engineers than bean counters in the good ol' days, poking fun at how domestics operated in reverse, I think Honda has now pulled a 180 and has more beancounters than engineers mimicking the domestic way of developing models. Just saying.
02-16-2018, 07:16 PM
#26
Honda can't stomach low volume cars anymore, we are very lucky that they brought back the NSX, and they really dragged their heels on that one marketing it years before it came to market. They used to say that Honda had more engineers than bean counters in the good ol' days, poking fun at how domestics operated in reverse, I think Honda has now pulled a 180 and has more beancounters than engineers mimicking the domestic way of developing models. Just saying.
with Joey 
02-16-2018, 09:23 PM
#27
Honda can't stomach low volume cars anymore, we are very lucky that they brought back the NSX, and they really dragged their heels on that one marketing it years before it came to market. They used to say that Honda had more engineers than bean counters in the good ol' days, poking fun at how domestics operated in reverse, I think Honda has now pulled a 180 and has more beancounters than engineers mimicking the domestic way of developing models. Just saying.
This has worked out handsomely for Honda though.
02-17-2018, 07:07 AM
#28
Honda might be more profitable catering to soccer moms and retirees over the past 10 years , and they seem to have weathered the storm after 2008, but that resulted in a very boring vehicle lineup.
Here is my recipe:
I always thought that car companies needed some "loss-leaders", within their lineups. You know how grocery stores might sell milk or eggs below cost just to get customers into the stores. Honda should have a couple models that are on the sporty side, even though they might be low volume and money-losing ventures it will attract new buyers to the brand, a loss-leader type of approach. They can still make billions selling minivans and suv's , who cares if they lose a few bucks on a couple of sports cars. Maybe they should stay out of F1 racing, and put all of that wasted money into a couple sports cars. They also need to hire more "normal" people to give input into vehicle designs, just everyday folk like the people on this forum who know what is attractive and what is ugly vehicle design. . Hiring these high-priced Harvard marketing types has not worked well for their vehicle designs, there have been too many ugly vehicles coming out of Honda in recent years like that joker smiley face grill design they've been pushing on several models.. Clearly I could never be a good auto company CEO as I go against all of the normal business models, lol. .
Here is my recipe:
I always thought that car companies needed some "loss-leaders", within their lineups. You know how grocery stores might sell milk or eggs below cost just to get customers into the stores. Honda should have a couple models that are on the sporty side, even though they might be low volume and money-losing ventures it will attract new buyers to the brand, a loss-leader type of approach. They can still make billions selling minivans and suv's , who cares if they lose a few bucks on a couple of sports cars. Maybe they should stay out of F1 racing, and put all of that wasted money into a couple sports cars. They also need to hire more "normal" people to give input into vehicle designs, just everyday folk like the people on this forum who know what is attractive and what is ugly vehicle design. . Hiring these high-priced Harvard marketing types has not worked well for their vehicle designs, there have been too many ugly vehicles coming out of Honda in recent years like that joker smiley face grill design they've been pushing on several models.. Clearly I could never be a good auto company CEO as I go against all of the normal business models, lol. .
Last edited by zeroptzero; 02-17-2018 at 07:11 AM.
02-17-2018, 09:04 AM
#29
The automotive industry has changed. It's not about the romance and pleasure of motoring anymore. The average person could not care less about that. They want low fuel consumption, space and automated features. Connectivity is more important to people than handling and performance. Look at the idiot commercials these days "real people, not actors" lol - makes me puke (seriously hate those commercials). There are a few manufactures making some driver focused vehicles (BMW M2, Alfa Giulia Quad, Audi RS3, Porsche GT4/Boxsters/Cayman etc) but from that list there are very few that offer a manual. The Miata is probably the last of this type of open roof rear drive simple, light weight - and they are in it still because they own that market. Also, these safety regulations are making it difficult to produce small vehicles. Miata's have done well with styling still with that in mind but look at the new Alfa roadster - TERRIBLE - they all need to have the front ends so elevated now that it ruins that low sleek look. Look at any new vehicle these days - front end elevated for pedestrian collision regulations. I think Mercedes has completely ruined most of their front ends trying to get clever with designs around that.... I'm rambling... hold on to your S2000's folks. They will NEVER make anything like it again and to get anything exhilarating and driver focused these days you will have to spend at least 60k.
Some of that is still around, but it is no longer as mainstream as it was in the past. It has become much more of a niche community...a niche interest...
Heck, not only is it hard to find the average person interested in caring what kind of car they drive...it's getting to the point where people are not even interested in driving at all! Enter the self-driving autonomous vehicle!
Both of my kids did not rush out to get their driver's licenses... They were late to the game and took their time to acquire their licences... Neither of them are particularly passionate about what kind of vehicle they drive... One that runs reliably and gets them there comfortably... Heck, I have my S2000, two Acura TL sports sedans and an old 2004 Toyota Camry... The Camry is the most popular vehicle in my "fleet"!!! They like the comfy plush (non-leather) seats and the nice soft road isolating ride...
It's maddening, really...
But as mentioned, unless things change, the momentum is selling cars that are sold in large volumes to the mainstream consumer. They want comfort, connectivity, convenience, gas efficiency, and bonus points if it can drive itself...
As with any niche market, even if they came out with a vehicle targeted to the car loving demographic, it will likely be priced with the assumption of low volumes, which means it's going to be way out of most people's affordability...
Yeah...not surprised that there won't be another S2000...
02-17-2018, 08:10 PM
#30
MikeekiM, your observations mirror those of my own for the most part. I recall being surprised that my son and his friends weren't nearly so driven and excited to obtain their driver's licenses as I was at their age. But to be fair, when I was a kid growing up in a small town in rural America all those years ago, if I wanted to see or experience much of anything it meant that I needed to drive there. To my son's credit, at least he wanted to learn to drive, and then own a car with a manual transmission (as have a surprising number of his friends).
But as I mentioned in my earlier post, most people look at Honda the very same way when it comes to motorcycles. The drop off in interest in cars is nothing compared to the loss of interest in motorcycles. Yet Honda still went ahead with (and continues to produce) the air-cooled CB1100 which sells in very, very low numbers. Just like with the S2000, people never thought we would see another motorcycle like this from Honda. So it seems that for a company which was founded on its engineering prowess, there are still times when the engineering staff seems to win out over everyone else just to show what they can do. While I wouldn't bet on that happening in the case of Honda producing another S car in a similar vein to those we've seen in the past, I also wouldn't bet entirely against it either.
But as I mentioned in my earlier post, most people look at Honda the very same way when it comes to motorcycles. The drop off in interest in cars is nothing compared to the loss of interest in motorcycles. Yet Honda still went ahead with (and continues to produce) the air-cooled CB1100 which sells in very, very low numbers. Just like with the S2000, people never thought we would see another motorcycle like this from Honda. So it seems that for a company which was founded on its engineering prowess, there are still times when the engineering staff seems to win out over everyone else just to show what they can do. While I wouldn't bet on that happening in the case of Honda producing another S car in a similar vein to those we've seen in the past, I also wouldn't bet entirely against it either.