2x6spds

I didn't think of that. I suppose, if that's true, then the Porsche with rear engine/rear wheel drive would also have the benefit of less power loss to the wheels.

2x6spds

LATEOTT

This is a really interesting concept in regards to the S2000. I'm sure overstating of performance characteristics of a car in some cases could be considered false advertising. Those characteristics that are really difficult to measure might be more apt to be "exaggerated."

As I see it for the S2K this is more about the selling of the car than the design/engineering/manufacture. Whatever its actual numbers are in any "test", I still think it is an incredible machine. Whether certain claims are used in marketing to prop up the price, especially above MSRP is another matter.

Chris S

25+% power loss seems excessive for all but an AWD car (or maybe an auto tranny). The standard for 4th Gen Supras is 15%-17%, and that's a MUCH heavier duty drivetrain...so I'd expect the S2000 to be more efficient if anything.

dlq04

Thanks for posting this info. I was considering a Miata and started reading their forum on a regular basis - many of the folks who waited and expected a faster car were really upset. I can't blame them. Frankly, I'm amazed that Miata is standing behind the product and trying to repair the damage. I found their organization (dealers, etc.) a major pain from bottom to top (uninformed, unhelpfull, etc.), and I even wrote the Pres. in Japan. Ten weeks later I did get a reply, but it was too late. My experience with Honda, so far, has been very positive and of course there is no comparing the two cars for performance.

S2K_CLS

David, you could have a point there...

I was just trying to think about the Miata from 99 up. I know the anniversary model had a 6speed, and I believe that a 6 speed is an option in the 01s...

Not sure about the gearing though, but I thought the gearing was the same from 00 to 01 for both 5 and 6 speed cars...

I could be wrong though...



[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]PellisS2k, you could be right about the MX5 2nd gear, though, I really thought that if you take the 2nd gear all the way to the redline (maybe even more 'cos the cutout was pretty high) then you'd be doing just over 100km/h (62.5mph). Though, I can't remember the exacly speeds in gear and couldn't find anything on it in a hurry. I did find this for an MX5 though:
1st 3.136
2nd 1.888
3rd 1.330

S2K_CLS

I know on GM cars, like the F-Body, 15-20% is normal...

20% is usually for the automatic, while the 15% is for the manual tranny...

I also know that the C5 Corvette has a higher driveline loss percentage due to the transaxle... Between that and the taller rear tire, it atleast partially explains why an LS1 F-Body can hang with a C5 Corvette...

I'd imagine the S2000 is close to the 15% in terms of driveline loss...

2x6spds

Hi Mike

Then I'd expect the S2000 to dyno at 205 HP RWHP. Have to find a correctly calibrated dyno and see. A lot of folks have reported dyno readings in the very low 190s.

First of all, I love my S2000, and it is really quick. That having been said, let's take a look at some numbers.

Mazda committed sepuko over an 8% shortfall of its 155 rated HP. That means Mazda offered to buy back 01 Miatas because it was short 12.4 HP (rated HP).

The S2000's F20C is rated at 240 HP. Let's discuss that portion of the distribution curve of outputs of all S2000 engines, where owners are getting 190 HP at the rear wheels. Assuming our car has 15% loss, then we'd expect 204 HP at the rear wheels. If we are putting out 190 HP at 15% loss, then we'd expect Honda to rate the F20C at 225 HP. Assuming the same 15% loss factor, those engines which dyno at 190 HP are overrated by 15 HP, a substantially larger shortfall than the one which was the occasion for Mazda falling on its sword.

If my S2000 put out 190 HP at the rear wheels, I'd expect either an explanation from Honda about where the 20+% loss was coming from or some upgrades which would help these little fellas put out the advertised HP output.

Just my bunch of HP.

By the way, Jay Li, I'd like this thread restored to car talk so we can discuss this.


2x6spds

2x6spds

The point is, if Honda has over rated our S2000s, by 15 HP (rated), I'd like to see their engineers come up with a fix, that is enough parts to bring these wee rockets up to rated HP. headers would do it, TB would get us part way there. Just a thought.

89

The REAL reason Mazda took action is because the new model was SLOWER than the old model. It was supposed to be FASTER.

If the 2001 Miata was the first version of the car there would not have been any buy-back offer, regardless of actual HP.

autoxEX

Well, if you think about it, why don't we compare our cars to the competition like the M roadster. That car puts out if I'm not mistaken 240 hp and 236 lbs of torque and runs the 0-60 mph at ~ 5.4-5.6 seconds while our s2k runs very similar if not faster numbers. That little M also pumps out much more torque, so our car has to make that up in some way and that's going to be horsepower. I really think Honda did their homework with this car, I mean they were really pushing the 120 hp/liter and advertising the car as the most efficient N/A engine in production. IMO, our performance numbers justify the hp we are making. We've also had dyno runs on different bolt ons such as I/H/E and haven't come out with any solid numbers to justify the reason for an upgrade, at least not yet. I don't think spending thousands of dollars for a few extra hp to the wheels to a well blueprinted motor is going to make me happy. Just my .02