noob: s2k purchase advice + s2k vs. z3
01-30-2005, 06:06 AM
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noob: s2k purchase advice + s2k vs. z3
Hey All,
Let me start by saying im glad i found this forum, i have found some usefull S2k info, and you all seem like a bunch of decent people.
I have a couple questions related to the S2K.
In the spring (i.e. 2-3 months from now) i will be purchasing a new "summer car", right now I have a 1997 BMW M3. Its a sick car, i love it to death, it is my 8th BMW (i dont own 8, i just get bored quickly, always trading in and up so i dont loose money on market value). However, for a summer car i wish to have a convertible, for the last few months i figured i would get a Z3...... since its a natural BMW decision. But consider this, the decision would be between a 97-98 Z3 vs. a 2000 Honda S2000. I have heard, in most cases that the Z3 gets blown away in both performance and overall build quality, by the S2K. Which causes me to question my decision. So some of the factors i have considered are below:
- Age (97 Z3 vs 2000 S2K)
- Reliability (BMW VS HONDA), in most cases my BMW's have been reliable, but the hondas i have owned have NEVER had a problem.
- Performance (im thinking the S2K is a winner here)
There are a few specific questions i have about the S2K for 2000.
-Being a first model year am i gettting myself into trouble with problems?
-How reliable are the 2K S2K's?
-Im concerned about the storage space, according to what i have read, in the S2k there is no glovebox, no door storage, only 5 cubic feet of trunk storage!?!?!?
-In the early summer i plan to drive to florida with this car, will the S2K stand the drive from Ontario Canada, to Florida (30 hours). Will it be terribly uncomfortable?
-Is there any web link you can send me that has interior pictures of the 2000 S2K, the only ones i have seen is from the 2005 Honda Web site, or is the interior the same?
Upgrades:
-The first thing i would get is a CAI, what is the best one, that gives the best sound? I had a 99 SIR, and an AEM intake, and when VTEC kicked in, that thing sounded rediciulous.
Any information, advice, or recommendations you guys could give would be welcome!!!!
Shawn
G-NET Canada
Let me start by saying im glad i found this forum, i have found some usefull S2k info, and you all seem like a bunch of decent people.
I have a couple questions related to the S2K.
In the spring (i.e. 2-3 months from now) i will be purchasing a new "summer car", right now I have a 1997 BMW M3. Its a sick car, i love it to death, it is my 8th BMW (i dont own 8, i just get bored quickly, always trading in and up so i dont loose money on market value). However, for a summer car i wish to have a convertible, for the last few months i figured i would get a Z3...... since its a natural BMW decision. But consider this, the decision would be between a 97-98 Z3 vs. a 2000 Honda S2000. I have heard, in most cases that the Z3 gets blown away in both performance and overall build quality, by the S2K. Which causes me to question my decision. So some of the factors i have considered are below:
- Age (97 Z3 vs 2000 S2K)
- Reliability (BMW VS HONDA), in most cases my BMW's have been reliable, but the hondas i have owned have NEVER had a problem.
- Performance (im thinking the S2K is a winner here)
There are a few specific questions i have about the S2K for 2000.
-Being a first model year am i gettting myself into trouble with problems?
-How reliable are the 2K S2K's?
-Im concerned about the storage space, according to what i have read, in the S2k there is no glovebox, no door storage, only 5 cubic feet of trunk storage!?!?!?
-In the early summer i plan to drive to florida with this car, will the S2K stand the drive from Ontario Canada, to Florida (30 hours). Will it be terribly uncomfortable?
-Is there any web link you can send me that has interior pictures of the 2000 S2K, the only ones i have seen is from the 2005 Honda Web site, or is the interior the same?
Upgrades:
-The first thing i would get is a CAI, what is the best one, that gives the best sound? I had a 99 SIR, and an AEM intake, and when VTEC kicked in, that thing sounded rediciulous.
Any information, advice, or recommendations you guys could give would be welcome!!!!
Shawn
G-NET Canada
01-30-2005, 07:59 AM
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Shawn, welcome to the board.
Since i've never driven a Z3, I'll only address your concerns about the s2000.
1) Since you drive an M3, I assume you can afford a newer model s2000. I would recommend that you look into 2002 model or higher. They have the glass rear window vs the plastic one that came in 00 and 01.
2) In terms of reliability, I've always driven hondas. Civics, preludes, now my 03 s2000. NEVER a major problem. Now others on this board may refute that. I guess there's always the exception.
3) From what I've READ, s2000 will beat the Z3 in performance in all aspects, with the exception of the M roadster of course.
4) Storage space. You're right, its pretty minimal. There is a centre console storage box, good for the owners manual, an 5-6's CD Jewel cases. The trunk can fit 2 larger size weekend bags no problem. My wife and I use it all the time for 3-4 day trips with more than enough luggage space. That being said, if you're comparing the Z3 and s2000, I would bet storage space would be pretty similar.
5) Long driving - no prob. I love the stiffness of the car, my wife thinks its a bit excessive, but she drives a civic. This is not a touring car, it's sports car, and it drives like one. Personally, I would drive it all day long if I had unlimited gas.
Look wise, s2000 over the z3 hands down.
Hope this helps
Since i've never driven a Z3, I'll only address your concerns about the s2000.
1) Since you drive an M3, I assume you can afford a newer model s2000. I would recommend that you look into 2002 model or higher. They have the glass rear window vs the plastic one that came in 00 and 01.
2) In terms of reliability, I've always driven hondas. Civics, preludes, now my 03 s2000. NEVER a major problem. Now others on this board may refute that. I guess there's always the exception.
3) From what I've READ, s2000 will beat the Z3 in performance in all aspects, with the exception of the M roadster of course.
4) Storage space. You're right, its pretty minimal. There is a centre console storage box, good for the owners manual, an 5-6's CD Jewel cases. The trunk can fit 2 larger size weekend bags no problem. My wife and I use it all the time for 3-4 day trips with more than enough luggage space. That being said, if you're comparing the Z3 and s2000, I would bet storage space would be pretty similar.
5) Long driving - no prob. I love the stiffness of the car, my wife thinks its a bit excessive, but she drives a civic. This is not a touring car, it's sports car, and it drives like one. Personally, I would drive it all day long if I had unlimited gas.
Look wise, s2000 over the z3 hands down.
Hope this helps
01-30-2005, 08:12 AM
#3
Well Gnet, the very first thing that I would ask you is why are you comparing pricing for a 1997 Z3 and a 2000 S? The wholesale pricing for the two cars in Ontario, Canada is as follows;
2000 Z3 (2.3) with 50kms, $16,900-22,500.
2000 Z3 (2.8) with 50kms, $21,900-27,450.
2000 S2000 (2.0) with 50kms, $22,800-24,500.
Then I would suggest you go find a S2000 and have a look see for yourself regarding trunk room (I routinely have two sets of clubs in back) and interior room.
As for reliability problems with the first year models, most have been rectified under warranty with Honda. Use the search feature and you will find the answer to all your questions.
After you have the answer to all your questions, go buy the S2000!
You will end up with a faster, better handling and (imho) better looking car. Maintenance costs will be lower and you will be driving a roadster which is a little rarer that it's German counterpart.
2000 Z3 (2.3) with 50kms, $16,900-22,500.
2000 Z3 (2.8) with 50kms, $21,900-27,450.
2000 S2000 (2.0) with 50kms, $22,800-24,500.
Then I would suggest you go find a S2000 and have a look see for yourself regarding trunk room (I routinely have two sets of clubs in back) and interior room.
As for reliability problems with the first year models, most have been rectified under warranty with Honda. Use the search feature and you will find the answer to all your questions.
After you have the answer to all your questions, go buy the S2000!
You will end up with a faster, better handling and (imho) better looking car. Maintenance costs will be lower and you will be driving a roadster which is a little rarer that it's German counterpart.
01-30-2005, 08:36 AM
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I know where you're coming from... I have a 97 M3, and a S2000 right now 
Between the z3 and the s2000, it will depend on what you're getting. Are you looking at the 4 or 6 cylinder? And is the M roadster an option? MY00 S2ks, being the first year sold, will inherently have problems that have been addressed in later years. Hopefully you're looking at an example that has had all tsbs addressed and the owner has babied it.
As far as comfort goes, on a 30 hour trip, i'd take the z3 hands down. The S2000 is FUN FUN FUN but the seats have padding that is 2" thick. c'mon. i'm not dissing the car (I own one afterall) but I wouldn't take it on a 30 hour drive. But it will depend on why you're buying the car. If you travel (alot) and you will be using the car on a daily basis then I might re-think the S2000 option. But if this is a toy that you'll be using on track days, weekends, and occasionally during the week, you'll be happier with the S2000. It's much more pure, and in the z3 you're more "disconnected" from the driving experience.
Then again there are guys that have been daily driving their s2ks for 4+ years, and love it. Your results may vary!
Between the z3 and the s2000, it will depend on what you're getting. Are you looking at the 4 or 6 cylinder? And is the M roadster an option? MY00 S2ks, being the first year sold, will inherently have problems that have been addressed in later years. Hopefully you're looking at an example that has had all tsbs addressed and the owner has babied it. As far as comfort goes, on a 30 hour trip, i'd take the z3 hands down. The S2000 is FUN FUN FUN but the seats have padding that is 2" thick. c'mon. i'm not dissing the car (I own one afterall) but I wouldn't take it on a 30 hour drive. But it will depend on why you're buying the car. If you travel (alot) and you will be using the car on a daily basis then I might re-think the S2000 option. But if this is a toy that you'll be using on track days, weekends, and occasionally during the week, you'll be happier with the S2000. It's much more pure, and in the z3 you're more "disconnected" from the driving experience.
Then again there are guys that have been daily driving their s2ks for 4+ years, and love it. Your results may vary!
01-30-2005, 12:47 PM
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If you are used to BMWs, you'll want to be careful about switching. Recent BMWs tend to have a lot more creature comforts than the S2000. If you care about things like central locking and self adjusting day/night mirrors, you might not be happy with the S2000. Spend some time looking at the S2000 feature list and see if it's enough for you.
I recently bought a new S2000 in preference to a Z4, mostly because the latter seemed a bit bloated. If BMW had still been making the Z3, preferably with their current 3.0 engine, I'd probably have bought that instead.
I'm one of those who uses the S2000 as a daily driver, and I'm quite happy with it in that role. I'm not sure I would use it for long trips, though, because (1) my wife and I might have more luggage than would fit in the trunk (not a problem if you are travelling alone and can use the passenger seat) and (2) the exhaust drone at highway speeds might be a bit much after a few hours. Also, you might want to look for one with an upgraded radio.
I recently bought a new S2000 in preference to a Z4, mostly because the latter seemed a bit bloated. If BMW had still been making the Z3, preferably with their current 3.0 engine, I'd probably have bought that instead.
I'm one of those who uses the S2000 as a daily driver, and I'm quite happy with it in that role. I'm not sure I would use it for long trips, though, because (1) my wife and I might have more luggage than would fit in the trunk (not a problem if you are travelling alone and can use the passenger seat) and (2) the exhaust drone at highway speeds might be a bit much after a few hours. Also, you might want to look for one with an upgraded radio.
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01-30-2005, 12:57 PM
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BMW builds luxury cars with a lot of comfort options, ie heated seats, traction control stability control etc. The S2000 is raw sports car. Very few "modern driver assists". I chose the S2000 over the Z3, Z4just for its bullit proof reliability and because of its raw handling and exclusivity. (very few on the road).
01-30-2005, 02:13 PM
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I went through the exact same dilemma.
The BMW Z3 has a MAJOR structural flaw. The rear sub frame CRACKS! Go to the bimmer forums to see pics. The Z3 is made down south in the US, the S2000 made in the same factory as the NSX in Japan. I've found cars MADE IN JAPAN are rock solid, as are Germen cars made in Germany. I would not buy a US made BMW.
If you plan just to use the Z3 as a daily driver then you should not (hopefully ) have to deal with your frame cracking, but if you plan to use it for spirted back country drives, auto cross, or plan to upgrade suspension etc on it, you will be in for an expensive lesson and BMW is not going to be of any help.
The BMW Z3 has a MAJOR structural flaw. The rear sub frame CRACKS! Go to the bimmer forums to see pics. The Z3 is made down south in the US, the S2000 made in the same factory as the NSX in Japan. I've found cars MADE IN JAPAN are rock solid, as are Germen cars made in Germany. I would not buy a US made BMW.
If you plan just to use the Z3 as a daily driver then you should not (hopefully ) have to deal with your frame cracking, but if you plan to use it for spirted back country drives, auto cross, or plan to upgrade suspension etc on it, you will be in for an expensive lesson and BMW is not going to be of any help.