View Poll Results: Picking Up Car From Dealer: Top Down, Extra Miles On Meter... Your Feelings???
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Picking Up Car From Dealer: Top Down, Extra Miles On Meter... Your Feelings???
08-21-2003, 10:20 AM
#41
Registered User
Thread Starter
Here's the e-mail everyone's been waiting for... READ FROM THE BOTTOM UP!
Re: 30miles...
A = My brother
B = SF Honda Service Manager
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 'BBBBB'
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
Let me be clear: It is neither my wish to continue in this unproductive exchange of emails nor to impugn your technicians. I just need straight answers to these four simple questions:
1.How is it that the problem I first brought the car in for was not diagnosed and fixed before the car was returned to me?
2.Is it normal for mechanics to drive a car 30 miles to troubleshoot a reported malfunction?
3.What were the reasons given by the mechanics for the 30-mile drive?
4.Where was the car actually driven?
Your prompt reply appreciated.
AAAAA
-----Original Message-----
From: BBBBB [mailto:BBBBB@SFHONDA.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:21 PM
To: AAAAA
Subject: RE: Follow Up
AAAAA,
It is unfortunate that someone like yourself, who appears to be very bright, has to bad mouth two fine technicians who each individually and separately attempted to verify your concern to maintain your continuing satisfaction with your vehicle. San Francisco Honda has absolutely no reason to ignore a verified problem hence my policy to always have a second technician attempt to verify a problem if a previous technician is unable to do so. To you your S2000 is special, as it would be to me if I owned the vehicle, but to the technicians that work on them day in and day out; it is not a vehicle that they would want to joy ride in. My previous response was not flippant; it was merely not conciliatory to your condescending and accusatory volley of insults. San Francisco Honda enjoys the districts highest work quality rating so your choosing to take your business elsewhere is done at your own peril. My technicians are some of the highest paid in the state and would not jeopardize their continued income for "cruising" your S2000 for any reason other than to attempt to verify your complaint. I would offer that you go for a ride with one of these technicians and attempt to personally demonstrate the concern. If you choose to go elsewhere, I wish you good luck and Thank You.
BBBBB
Service Director
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA [mailto:AAAAA@xxxx.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:24 PM
To: 'BBBBB'
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
Perhaps I would be more comforted by your response if the problem I came to your dealership with was actually solved. Of course what makes the 30 miles driven on my car most objectionable is your well-reputed technicians' utter failure to deduce anything from so earnestly attempting to "duplicate the complaint." As I mentioned previously, the engine light was still lit when the car was returned to me.
And I am sorry you think so little of your customers as to pawn such an explanation as needing to drive 30 miles to warm the engine. I am now left to choose between what's more irksome, your dealership's incompetence or your flippant, incredible response.
What's done is done. I do not have the power to turn back time and avoid your establishment in the very first place. All I can and will do is use my every effort to prevent others from making the same mistake.
AAAAA
-----Original Message-----
From: BBBBBB [mailto:BBBBB@SFHONDA.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:15 PM
To: AAAAAA
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Dear AAAAA,
As I told you on Friday evening when you brought your concerns to me, the paperwork related to your service visit was not yet filed and in the warranty transmittal process. I have been able to speak with one of the technicians that worked on your vehicle but the second technician is
back until tomorrow. As I said when we spoke in person, my policy is that if
one technician is unable to verify a clients concern then it is
automatically dispatched to a second technician to again try and verify the concern.
The complaint that you noted was a shifting concern which requires that the vehicle be driven to duplicate the upshift/downshift range when hot as well as cold. It is an absolute necessity to drive a customers vehicle in order to attempt to verify and duplicate the complaint. I feel that you are over dramatizing the fact that your vehicle was driven to excess and in an
irresponsible manner. There is absolutely no reason to assume that your car was driven to its "very extremes". San Francisco Honda is a car dealership that has been in business since 1938. The S2000 is a very nice car but to our technicians that see them and work on them everyday not a car to joyride in. The two technicians that worked on your vehicle have never had an allegation such as this and their reputations are excellent. Under no circumstances do I believe that your vehicle was driven in an inappropriate manner nor any more than they felt needed to be driven to attempt to verify your complaint.
BBBBBB
Service Director
(415) 913-5155 Voice
(415) 913-5156 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA [mailto:AAAAAA@xxxx.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 3:00 PM
To: 'BBBBB@sfhonda.com'
Subject: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
I had spoken to you late last Friday concerning the grievous addition of 30 miles on my S2000 as it was left in SF Honda's care on an overnight stay--miles that no doubt involved the pushing of my car to its very extremes.
I was disappointed foremost by the gross mishandling of my car to say nothing of the violation in trust between the client and service center. Persons that leave their car at the service station do so in the good faith and confidence that their cars are in the charge of competent and responsible mechanics who will tend to them with the highest levels of professionalism
and care.
Such service was not rendered to me and I can scarcely imagine any context in your care where my car could accumulate 30 miles other than it being taken out on a "joy ride." And to add insult to injury, the original problem I had brought the car in for was not addressed and more egregious, the vehicle was diagnosed as being problem free despite a lit
"maintenance required" indicator suggesting otherwise.
Still more I was told that you would give this matter your immediate attention and would phone me back providing, to your best ability, a full accounting of exactly where this car was taken and am gravely disappointed that I have yet to receive such an explanation. I hope this matter will be looked into with the promptness and care as was conveyed to me in our
discussion. Perceived inattention will result in letters to SF Honda, Honda Motor Company USA in Torrance, and to every World Wide Web Honda forum imaginable.
AAAAA
Re: 30miles...
A = My brother
B = SF Honda Service Manager
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:46 PM
To: 'BBBBB'
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
Let me be clear: It is neither my wish to continue in this unproductive exchange of emails nor to impugn your technicians. I just need straight answers to these four simple questions:
1.How is it that the problem I first brought the car in for was not diagnosed and fixed before the car was returned to me?
2.Is it normal for mechanics to drive a car 30 miles to troubleshoot a reported malfunction?
3.What were the reasons given by the mechanics for the 30-mile drive?
4.Where was the car actually driven?
Your prompt reply appreciated.
AAAAA
-----Original Message-----
From: BBBBB [mailto:BBBBB@SFHONDA.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:21 PM
To: AAAAA
Subject: RE: Follow Up
AAAAA,
It is unfortunate that someone like yourself, who appears to be very bright, has to bad mouth two fine technicians who each individually and separately attempted to verify your concern to maintain your continuing satisfaction with your vehicle. San Francisco Honda has absolutely no reason to ignore a verified problem hence my policy to always have a second technician attempt to verify a problem if a previous technician is unable to do so. To you your S2000 is special, as it would be to me if I owned the vehicle, but to the technicians that work on them day in and day out; it is not a vehicle that they would want to joy ride in. My previous response was not flippant; it was merely not conciliatory to your condescending and accusatory volley of insults. San Francisco Honda enjoys the districts highest work quality rating so your choosing to take your business elsewhere is done at your own peril. My technicians are some of the highest paid in the state and would not jeopardize their continued income for "cruising" your S2000 for any reason other than to attempt to verify your complaint. I would offer that you go for a ride with one of these technicians and attempt to personally demonstrate the concern. If you choose to go elsewhere, I wish you good luck and Thank You.
BBBBB
Service Director
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA [mailto:AAAAA@xxxx.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:24 PM
To: 'BBBBB'
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
Perhaps I would be more comforted by your response if the problem I came to your dealership with was actually solved. Of course what makes the 30 miles driven on my car most objectionable is your well-reputed technicians' utter failure to deduce anything from so earnestly attempting to "duplicate the complaint." As I mentioned previously, the engine light was still lit when the car was returned to me.
And I am sorry you think so little of your customers as to pawn such an explanation as needing to drive 30 miles to warm the engine. I am now left to choose between what's more irksome, your dealership's incompetence or your flippant, incredible response.
What's done is done. I do not have the power to turn back time and avoid your establishment in the very first place. All I can and will do is use my every effort to prevent others from making the same mistake.
AAAAA
-----Original Message-----
From: BBBBBB [mailto:BBBBB@SFHONDA.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 5:15 PM
To: AAAAAA
Subject: RE: Follow Up
Dear AAAAA,
As I told you on Friday evening when you brought your concerns to me, the paperwork related to your service visit was not yet filed and in the warranty transmittal process. I have been able to speak with one of the technicians that worked on your vehicle but the second technician is
back until tomorrow. As I said when we spoke in person, my policy is that if
one technician is unable to verify a clients concern then it is
automatically dispatched to a second technician to again try and verify the concern.
The complaint that you noted was a shifting concern which requires that the vehicle be driven to duplicate the upshift/downshift range when hot as well as cold. It is an absolute necessity to drive a customers vehicle in order to attempt to verify and duplicate the complaint. I feel that you are over dramatizing the fact that your vehicle was driven to excess and in an
irresponsible manner. There is absolutely no reason to assume that your car was driven to its "very extremes". San Francisco Honda is a car dealership that has been in business since 1938. The S2000 is a very nice car but to our technicians that see them and work on them everyday not a car to joyride in. The two technicians that worked on your vehicle have never had an allegation such as this and their reputations are excellent. Under no circumstances do I believe that your vehicle was driven in an inappropriate manner nor any more than they felt needed to be driven to attempt to verify your complaint.
BBBBBB
Service Director
(415) 913-5155 Voice
(415) 913-5156 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: AAAAA [mailto:AAAAAA@xxxx.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 3:00 PM
To: 'BBBBB@sfhonda.com'
Subject: Follow Up
Mr. BBBBB,
I had spoken to you late last Friday concerning the grievous addition of 30 miles on my S2000 as it was left in SF Honda's care on an overnight stay--miles that no doubt involved the pushing of my car to its very extremes.
I was disappointed foremost by the gross mishandling of my car to say nothing of the violation in trust between the client and service center. Persons that leave their car at the service station do so in the good faith and confidence that their cars are in the charge of competent and responsible mechanics who will tend to them with the highest levels of professionalism
and care.
Such service was not rendered to me and I can scarcely imagine any context in your care where my car could accumulate 30 miles other than it being taken out on a "joy ride." And to add insult to injury, the original problem I had brought the car in for was not addressed and more egregious, the vehicle was diagnosed as being problem free despite a lit
"maintenance required" indicator suggesting otherwise.
Still more I was told that you would give this matter your immediate attention and would phone me back providing, to your best ability, a full accounting of exactly where this car was taken and am gravely disappointed that I have yet to receive such an explanation. I hope this matter will be looked into with the promptness and care as was conveyed to me in our
discussion. Perceived inattention will result in letters to SF Honda, Honda Motor Company USA in Torrance, and to every World Wide Web Honda forum imaginable.
AAAAA
08-21-2003, 11:33 AM
#42
May I add, it must have been a very hard 30+ miles if all they were diagnosing were 1st-2nd gear shifts....
edit: I wonder how many times they had to take it around the block down s. van ness, sit in traffic, come around back to market etc. to accumulate 30+ miles. You really don't need to venture that far from the dealership to diagnose a shift into 2nd gear.
edit: I wonder how many times they had to take it around the block down s. van ness, sit in traffic, come around back to market etc. to accumulate 30+ miles. You really don't need to venture that far from the dealership to diagnose a shift into 2nd gear.
08-21-2003, 11:53 AM
#44
I will ride along on the test drive after the service is done.
08-21-2003, 01:09 PM
#45
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Wow. I'd be pissed and file a complaint. That service manager is an A$$hole!!! I read all the emails. You were polite in the manner you wrote but at the same time demanded some answers. The service manager didn't even show any remorse for the service techs behavior and instead tried to step on a high horse and claim that they know everything. Include these emails in your complaint.
This sort of behavior reminds me of trying to deal with Mercedes to get my car *cough* lemon *cough* dealt with. One instance that thoroughly pissed me off is after they replaced my cars engine, two of the service reps and the service manager(err...A$$hole) stood informs of the door to the customer waiting area which you have to walk to after picking up your paper work and they all farted up a storm. I really should have said something at that point.
Another time when talking to the Service manager (Ernie at SilverStar Mercedes in Thousand Oaks) on the phone and telling him i think my car is a lemon, he proceeds to verbally rip me a new a$$hole, and insult my intelligence by claiming that since i'm only 23 and he's been working in the industry since i was in diapers, that I know nothing of the matter and my car clearly isn't a lemon. I can't wait to see that guy when i go to drop off my car and pick up my check from MBUSA.
Sorry guys i had to vent a little. Stealerships really piss me off.
This sort of behavior reminds me of trying to deal with Mercedes to get my car *cough* lemon *cough* dealt with. One instance that thoroughly pissed me off is after they replaced my cars engine, two of the service reps and the service manager(err...A$$hole) stood informs of the door to the customer waiting area which you have to walk to after picking up your paper work and they all farted up a storm. I really should have said something at that point.
Another time when talking to the Service manager (Ernie at SilverStar Mercedes in Thousand Oaks) on the phone and telling him i think my car is a lemon, he proceeds to verbally rip me a new a$$hole, and insult my intelligence by claiming that since i'm only 23 and he's been working in the industry since i was in diapers, that I know nothing of the matter and my car clearly isn't a lemon. I can't wait to see that guy when i go to drop off my car and pick up my check from MBUSA.
Sorry guys i had to vent a little. Stealerships really piss me off.
08-21-2003, 03:48 PM
#46
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Firstly you have every right to be upset, 30 miles is a ridiculous distance for diagnosing any problem and if they're saying it was two attempts to diagnose the problem, then 15 miles is also way too much especially as it was 1st to 2nd gear problems.
Its a pity the emails got confrontational quite so quickly, it sort of put the service manager on the defensive and now he's emphasising the "my technicians' professionalism has been brought into question
"
I'd forget the service manager from now on, he's just hoping you'll go away. Put on your suit
go into the dealership with your questions that you want answering and what you would like done.
Talk to the General Manager? (Dealer Principal in the U.K.) maybe phone in advance so he can talk to the service manager and get his version of events and then go along and explain everything from your point of view.
At the end of the day your gas has been used, excessive mileage has been put on your car, the engine maintenance light is still lit and your car still requires maintenance.
Be polite, be reasonable, its for them to address these issues. If you get no satisfaction then inform them that unfortunately you'll have to contact SF Honda to voice your concerns over the behaviour of one of their dealers who are damaging the Honda brand name by their unprofessionalism.
All the best.
Its a pity the emails got confrontational quite so quickly, it sort of put the service manager on the defensive and now he's emphasising the "my technicians' professionalism has been brought into question
" I'd forget the service manager from now on, he's just hoping you'll go away. Put on your suit
go into the dealership with your questions that you want answering and what you would like done.Talk to the General Manager? (Dealer Principal in the U.K.) maybe phone in advance so he can talk to the service manager and get his version of events and then go along and explain everything from your point of view.
At the end of the day your gas has been used, excessive mileage has been put on your car, the engine maintenance light is still lit and your car still requires maintenance.
Be polite, be reasonable, its for them to address these issues. If you get no satisfaction then inform them that unfortunately you'll have to contact SF Honda to voice your concerns over the behaviour of one of their dealers who are damaging the Honda brand name by their unprofessionalism.
All the best.
08-21-2003, 11:04 PM
#47
Registered User
Thread Starter
My brother agrees the letter he wrote was too confrontational to start with... but that was after he was promised a phone call back from the manager... you can see why...
08-24-2003, 12:57 PM
#48
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Originally posted by DongTran
By the way, Barry is an a$$hole.
By the way, Barry is an a$$hole.
my car also came back to me with the service light still lit.
08-30-2003, 02:23 AM
#49
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Road Rage
[B]
sue for damage? What damage? That is a bit over the top - I have found that a quiet but insistent tone gets the job done more than hollow litigation threats. And then extortion to boot?
[B]
sue for damage? What damage? That is a bit over the top - I have found that a quiet but insistent tone gets the job done more than hollow litigation threats. And then extortion to boot?
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