It's the "relatively" safe part that gives me pause I will admit. Driving on snow covered roads and sliding all over the place does not bother me too much because the speed is low.

The "unconscious competence" stage is the ultimate goal in many human activities. Playing a musical instrument comes to mind. Golf for sure.

Can I take my essentially stock S2k to an autocross event as a rank beginner and will I be tolerated? Do they run these events for rank beginners? If so, maybe I'll convince a buddy or two to bring their roadsters to an autocross with me.

Absolutely they do. In fact, totally stock os the best way to start. They have different classes based on car and its mods. The wrong mod could put you in a class with really seasoned drivers.

Not that it would matter, as you're not even competing against yourself. You're just there to learn better skills. Not improve times (though of course, there is a lot of correlation).

You will be welcomed for sure!

...and Autocross is low speed, and nothing to hit except cones. So spinning out there is a safe as it gets.

It appears there is a Sports Car Club of Vermont running various events. I will check it out probably for next year.

you are right sir. In fact, this is one of the first fundamentals taught at the track
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This is a fundamental for beginning drivers. As is the term "don't lift". But lifting and using brakes are definitely techniques you need to learn once you get faster and more experienced.
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This all depends on the car. In some sedans I would turn in very sharply, with considerable braking, as the resultant understeer helped slow the car. In a Formula 1 or 2 Brabham I would usually turn in while still holding some light brakes, as it helped establish the attitude I wanted. In a Lotus I always had power on before any turn in, as they would bite you if did not have power on. A bit like our cars really.

I did once drive a Ferrari that required you to be off the brakes for at least 10 yards before turning in, for it to gather its balance before turning in. Turn in with the nose still down, & it had total breakaway of the rear end. If you gave it this time to regain its balance you could turn in over 15 MPH faster. [It took me 20 odd laps of a 6 hour race to figure this out].

The worst thing you can do with a Formula 1 or one of our cars is to saw at the wheel. You should be able to stop a rear end insipient lose by simply reducing some pro turn lock. If you apply opposite lock you have destroyed your cars balance, & will be much slower.

Try watching some Formula 1 TV coverage. You will only ever see opposite lock when they have totally lost grip, very rarely. The best drivers will be moving the wheel no more than an inch or so to correct both front & rear slides BEFORE they develop.
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Definitely depends on the car, but also on the overall car setup. I think comparing Formula cars to street cars is not really valuable. If you drive a stock S2K like you would a formula car, you'd probably be pretty slow. There's a balance between not sliding and sliding too much and it depends on the type of corner as well. I know good drivers who are very smooth and always making sure the car is gripping who are fast. But I also know guys who can throw the car sideways into the corner, get it rotated very early and get on the gas earlier who are very fast as well. There's no "one correct driving style". Gotta do what works best for the particular car and corner on the track.

pics of tires

https://imgur.com/a/fsQCU


Was on stock suspension, 25+ heat cycles on used rs3's in 90 degree heat, + they chored so I had them flipped on the wheels, didn't get them balanced. They were essentially useless, and still put down a time faster than most guys with proper setups. And it was my first time there!

You came in hot, ease off the gas feed in the steering angle. (Remember too much steering correction can cause the car to "snap") the slide it self will scrub speed. You can use the brakes with the car sideways but be veeeeeeery gentle and only do it in real cases of emergency. I once had to do something similar as I came in to a 90mph turn waaaaaay hot at 110 and had to slow down for traffic that was doing 40.

If it's not suuuuuper hot, keep the steering wheel straight, do a zero counter steer slide. You need to stay on throttle and essentially balance the car with the gas pedal.

If it's too hot for that, let the rear end out, and catch it, and keep it sideways till turn exit. You will scrub speed by having the car sideways.


If your good in snow and can flick the car around as much as you want. Left, right, hold slides, bla bla bla. Try your hand at rain drifting in a big smooth parking lot, it'll fill in the blanks on how to feel the wheel and how to yank it back to straight to end the slide.

I feel like all this debate makes a simple topic so complicated. Snap oversteer is not a thing on this car. Bad line improper throttle or break application is. If you want to learn how to drive the car fast take it to the track. Any time I've ever had an issue in the S2 thousand it's because I did something wrong.

Absolutely. I did my first autocross at 18, then did 50-60 more. I became rather good, albeit in a modified, FWD Integra.

When I first got an S2k, knowing about its somewhat snappy handling, the first thing I did was take it to an autocross. I was all over the place until I reinforced some good habits in my mind (mainly don't lift the throttle mid-corner!).

Autocrosses have a Novice/Beginner class, and usually about 1/4-1/3 of everyone there is in that class. You won't be alone and there is nothing to worry about!

I would say that snap oversteer is a thing if you make a mistake. If you do something you shouldn't, it will bite, and the rear end of the car is not as progressive or forgiving as many others. I don't know if I'd call it a "flaw" per se, but it takes more talent and commitment to drive fast and not spin than with many other cars. It is more like a kart in that it requires faster reactions if you do want to get it loose.

Couldnt have said it better myself :LOL: :thumbup: