Vtec in this car
02-09-2019, 11:47 PM
#1
Vtec in this car
I came from an 8th gen civic Si and I would be driving at around 50-60 and drop to 4th gear and I'd be right in the sweet spot around 6k vtec. I'm having trouble trying to figure out the sweet spot for the S2K. It always seems like my RPM's are too low or way too high.
When I'm going 50-60 and drop to 4th I am still below 6k but going to 3rd is way too low and I'm basically redlining. Does anyone have like a list of ideal speed to gear for the S2K? I also hear going to near 9k before shifts is pointless as the power dies or before 9k.
I feel like the gearing was superior in the Si it was more predictable to manage your vtec engagement. A guy in an EP3 Si tried to race me from a roll and he did a countdown and I shifted to 4th but was out of vtec and he was actually pulling on me until I got over 7k.
It was pretty embarrassing to get pulled on by an EP3 Si for a little bit.
When I'm going 50-60 and drop to 4th I am still below 6k but going to 3rd is way too low and I'm basically redlining. Does anyone have like a list of ideal speed to gear for the S2K? I also hear going to near 9k before shifts is pointless as the power dies or before 9k.
I feel like the gearing was superior in the Si it was more predictable to manage your vtec engagement. A guy in an EP3 Si tried to race me from a roll and he did a countdown and I shifted to 4th but was out of vtec and he was actually pulling on me until I got over 7k.
It was pretty embarrassing to get pulled on by an EP3 Si for a little bit.
02-10-2019, 06:11 AM
#2
There used to be a very nice graph that (hopefully) someone can find and post.
50-60mph in my 2006 car is the high end of 2d gear so I'd probably choose 3d, certainly not 4th. The AP1 an AP2 gearboxes are slightly different and the OE 6000rpm VTEC requires shifting right at red line or the engine will fall off the cam as soon as you shift. The fuel cutoffs on the two generations are really not that far apart. The stock AP2 is at 8200 (not 8000) and I think the AP1 is really 8800 (not the mystical 9000). Anyway ya gotta keep either engine on the VTEC cam.
With my gears and tires the fuel cutoff computes to these theoretical speeds. Your speeds will still be in the ball park. 3d and 4th gears are the range starting at 50-60 mph.
Fuel cutoff (Ap2 gearbox at 8400 rpm -- see last paragrah below)
1: 40mph
2: 61 -- Zero to 60 with only one shift
3: 85
4: 108
5: 133
6: 165 -- theoretical, like I wrote
If you want any better performance in this type acceleration you need to lower the VTEC engagement and tune the car for this. Easily done with the 2006+ DBW OE ECU but can be done on the earlier car with an aftermarket or piggy-back ECU. My VTEC is at 3600rpm and fuel cutoff is at 8400 giving me nearly 5000rpm of VTEC power compared to the 2200rpm of a stock AP2 engine and 2800rpm of the AP1 engines.
-- Chuck
50-60mph in my 2006 car is the high end of 2d gear so I'd probably choose 3d, certainly not 4th. The AP1 an AP2 gearboxes are slightly different and the OE 6000rpm VTEC requires shifting right at red line or the engine will fall off the cam as soon as you shift. The fuel cutoffs on the two generations are really not that far apart. The stock AP2 is at 8200 (not 8000) and I think the AP1 is really 8800 (not the mystical 9000). Anyway ya gotta keep either engine on the VTEC cam.
With my gears and tires the fuel cutoff computes to these theoretical speeds. Your speeds will still be in the ball park. 3d and 4th gears are the range starting at 50-60 mph.
Fuel cutoff (Ap2 gearbox at 8400 rpm -- see last paragrah below)
1: 40mph
2: 61 -- Zero to 60 with only one shift
3: 85
4: 108
5: 133
6: 165 -- theoretical, like I wrote
If you want any better performance in this type acceleration you need to lower the VTEC engagement and tune the car for this. Easily done with the 2006+ DBW OE ECU but can be done on the earlier car with an aftermarket or piggy-back ECU. My VTEC is at 3600rpm and fuel cutoff is at 8400 giving me nearly 5000rpm of VTEC power compared to the 2200rpm of a stock AP2 engine and 2800rpm of the AP1 engines.
-- Chuck
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Saki GT (02-10-2019)
02-10-2019, 06:47 AM
#3
you'd be surprised how many cars can pull on an S2000 , not the vehicle to buy if you want to street race as you will come up short quite a bit of the time. You won't get much acceleration in 4th gear, 3rd gear is much better if you can manage the rpms and redline.
02-10-2019, 06:47 AM
#4
There's no I-VTEC in this car.
5500, and 75% throttle or more, if you want to drop down and have any sort of torque your revs need to be higher then 4500 and deep into the throttle pedal. But upshifting and staying in vtec on an AP1 you need to shift at 8500 or higher
5500, and 75% throttle or more, if you want to drop down and have any sort of torque your revs need to be higher then 4500 and deep into the throttle pedal. But upshifting and staying in vtec on an AP1 you need to shift at 8500 or higher
02-10-2019, 06:48 AM
#5
ChuckS speaks the truth- hondata + DBW allows you to lower VTEC engagement which will solve your problem.
But seeing as you have an AP1 (had one for 7 years, now '06), at 50-60 MPH I think 3rd would be just on the edge of VTEC engagement. Remember a shift will take just under 1/2 second so if you're in 2nd- where you'll be in VTEC at 50 with prod of the throttle- you still have to upshift and lose some momentum.
Try 3rd next time.
darcy
But seeing as you have an AP1 (had one for 7 years, now '06), at 50-60 MPH I think 3rd would be just on the edge of VTEC engagement. Remember a shift will take just under 1/2 second so if you're in 2nd- where you'll be in VTEC at 50 with prod of the throttle- you still have to upshift and lose some momentum.
Try 3rd next time.
darcy
02-10-2019, 07:14 AM
#6
I came from an 8th gen civic Si and I would be driving at around 50-60 and drop to 4th gear and I'd be right in the sweet spot around 6k vtec. I'm having trouble trying to figure out the sweet spot for the S2K. It always seems like my RPM's are too low or way too high.
When I'm going 50-60 and drop to 4th I am still below 6k but going to 3rd is way too low and I'm basically redlining. Does anyone have like a list of ideal speed to gear for the S2K? I also hear going to near 9k before shifts is pointless as the power dies or before 9k.
I feel like the gearing was superior in the Si it was more predictable to manage your vtec engagement. A guy in an EP3 Si tried to race me from a roll and he did a countdown and I shifted to 4th but was out of vtec and he was actually pulling on me until I got over 7k.
It was pretty embarrassing to get pulled on by an EP3 Si for a little bit.
When I'm going 50-60 and drop to 4th I am still below 6k but going to 3rd is way too low and I'm basically redlining. Does anyone have like a list of ideal speed to gear for the S2K? I also hear going to near 9k before shifts is pointless as the power dies or before 9k.
I feel like the gearing was superior in the Si it was more predictable to manage your vtec engagement. A guy in an EP3 Si tried to race me from a roll and he did a countdown and I shifted to 4th but was out of vtec and he was actually pulling on me until I got over 7k.
It was pretty embarrassing to get pulled on by an EP3 Si for a little bit.
??
Drop to the lowest gear you can. There's nothing complex about it.
8G Si's were not at 6K in 4th at 50-60. You're thinking about 3rd (5500-6k) They have very similar gearing as compared to a S2000.
50-60mph is not basically redline in 3rd in a S2000. Its nowhere near redline in 3rd. Its like 5500-5800 RPM or something. Of course the car would be slow if you put it in 4th at that speed.
If I started a race at 50 in an AP1, I'd rev match and drop it into 2nd....not 3rd or 4th.
FWIW, stock S2000's are quite commonly a 13.6 to 13.8 car out of the box. However, launching it is very difficult.
From a roll, you can hang with much bigger fish, though. Just use the correct gear and let it rev out.
Lowest gear possible if you want to go fast. Shift at 9K. No science needed. Keep it simple.
02-10-2019, 09:01 AM
#7
Moderator
I can't imagine starting a drag race in 4th gear lol - you'd have to be going 100mph already.
Imo, in an AP1, you have to always be above 6k for the power and to take advantage of the gearing. AP2, 5k or above as it has slight mechanical advantage and more pre-VTEC power, but in either car, you want to be in the aggressive cam for power.
Lowering the vtec crossover to 5200 or so is good if you can do it, but this car lives at redline. No matter what, it's a 240hp car with less than 170 lbft torque, so don't expect too much.
If you really want more punch, you can swap in a more aggressive final drive = 4.77, 4.57, 4.44, etc compared to stock, which is around 4.10 depending on year.
Imo, in an AP1, you have to always be above 6k for the power and to take advantage of the gearing. AP2, 5k or above as it has slight mechanical advantage and more pre-VTEC power, but in either car, you want to be in the aggressive cam for power.
Lowering the vtec crossover to 5200 or so is good if you can do it, but this car lives at redline. No matter what, it's a 240hp car with less than 170 lbft torque, so don't expect too much.
If you really want more punch, you can swap in a more aggressive final drive = 4.77, 4.57, 4.44, etc compared to stock, which is around 4.10 depending on year.
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02-10-2019, 10:35 AM
#8
VTEC Yo! occurs at 6000rpm for both engines and there's nothing special at 5000rpm in the AP2 engines which is evident when VTEC engages higher in the rev band. VTEC Yo disappeared when the engagement was lowered to 3600 in my car.
Lowering VTEC in pre-2006 cars will cost about $1500 for hardware (Hondata KPro plus required sensors and valve cover) plus whatever your tuner changes. I'm sure there are other options. In 2006+ cars the hardware is about $600 (Hondata FlashPro) plus tuning. $700 transformed my car. Guys spend more than either of these of fluffy things like aftermarket wheels -- your car; your money.
-- Chuck
Lowering VTEC in pre-2006 cars will cost about $1500 for hardware (Hondata KPro plus required sensors and valve cover) plus whatever your tuner changes. I'm sure there are other options. In 2006+ cars the hardware is about $600 (Hondata FlashPro) plus tuning. $700 transformed my car. Guys spend more than either of these of fluffy things like aftermarket wheels -- your car; your money.
-- Chuck
02-10-2019, 11:12 AM
#9
I am scared to go to low of a gear while roll racing so I don't crack my retainers. And yes in the Si shifting to 4th gear going 50-60mph you are right around 6k rpm's.
The S2K feels way faster than my Si did, but I am just struggling to figure out the gearing it seems like it takes an ETERNITY to get to 6000-8000 range.
I do know a bolt on and tuned Si will be a struggle for me especially from a roll because the K-Series are beast with bolt on's. Ideally i'd love to have a K20/K24 hybrid build swap into the S2000 (don't hate on me too much).
The S2K feels way faster than my Si did, but I am just struggling to figure out the gearing it seems like it takes an ETERNITY to get to 6000-8000 range.
I do know a bolt on and tuned Si will be a struggle for me especially from a roll because the K-Series are beast with bolt on's. Ideally i'd love to have a K20/K24 hybrid build swap into the S2000 (don't hate on me too much).