Clutch master & slave cylinders replaced, but...
11-10-2016, 09:53 PM
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Clutch master & slave cylinders replaced, but...
car is still hard to shift. Clutch line has been bled and it feels normal. Gearbox drained and refilled with Honda MTF. The shifting problem developed only a week ago, car would not shift into any gears with forcing and pumping the clutch repeatedly to build pressure. I checked the clutch fluid reservoir and it was low, so I figured there was a leak (which there was upon inspection on old master cylinder). So now having replaced both master an slave cylinders, new gearbox oil, the problem still exists. In addition the clutch is now chattering as I engage it. In my opinion, it seems as though the clutch doesn't fully disengage. Basically, it's dragging. The techs who did the work said they think the clutch may need to be replaced. It doesn't slip (trust me, I've tried), but I can't think of what else it could be. Car has 93Kmi and I don't know if the clutch has ever been replaced. This car shifted like a dream when I bought it only 4K miles ago. I willing to replace the clutch, but if that doesn't solve it then what? Do the synchros go bad? That wouldn't typically happen in every gear. Before anyone asks, I'm good at driving a manual, been rowing gears since day one and can heel/toe, match rev, etc.
Last edited by L8BRAKN; 11-10-2016 at 09:55 PM. Reason: grammer
11-11-2016, 04:08 AM
#2
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Syncros are not related to your current issue.
Air in the hydraulics or rusted spline. The slave must be unbolted to get all the air out. Pumping and bleeding via conventional methods seldom works.
For the record, 95% of S2000 clutch masters are leaking right now. 99% of those leaks will stop by replacing the fluid in the res regularly. It doesn't even need to be bled or flushed. With each clutch release, contaminants shoot into the res, and settle to the bottom. Suck out, wipe out, refill. Can be done in 3 minutes or less.
I have replaced one clutch master cylinder in 14 years.
Air in the hydraulics or rusted spline. The slave must be unbolted to get all the air out. Pumping and bleeding via conventional methods seldom works.
For the record, 95% of S2000 clutch masters are leaking right now. 99% of those leaks will stop by replacing the fluid in the res regularly. It doesn't even need to be bled or flushed. With each clutch release, contaminants shoot into the res, and settle to the bottom. Suck out, wipe out, refill. Can be done in 3 minutes or less.
I have replaced one clutch master cylinder in 14 years.
Last edited by Billman250; 11-11-2016 at 04:15 AM.
11-11-2016, 07:41 AM
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I searched the forum and found other people with similar symptoms who had a broken clutch disk with debris inside causing the issue. I'll have the shop double check their work, but the fact that the problem developed suddenly leads me to believe something failed. I'm keeping the motor stock, but am entertaining a BC stroker kit down the road. For now I'd go with OEM clutch (assuming a replacement is in order) unless someone can recommend a street-friendly performance clutch upgrade.
11-11-2016, 09:11 AM
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Has anyone mentioned the possibility of a worn throw out bearing? That chattering can come from a worn throw out bearing when the clutch pedal is pressed. Hope this helps.
Clutch Diagnostic Test
If you don't hear any noise during these four steps, then your problem is probably not the clutch. If you hear the noise at idle and it goes away when the clutch is pressed, it may be an issue in the contact point between the fork and pivot ball.- Start your car, set the parking brake, and put the car in neutral.
- With your car idling, listen for a growling noise without pushing the clutch in. If you hear something, it's most likely a problem with the transmission. If you don't hear a noise, proceed to step three.
- With the car still in neutral, begin to push the clutch and listen for noise. If you hear a chirping noise as you press, it's most likely the clutch release, or throw-out bearing. If you don't hear a noise, proceed to step four.
- Push the clutch all the way to the floor. If you hear a squealing noise, it's probably the pilot bearing or bushing.
11-11-2016, 03:46 PM
#5
I think you have a broken clutch disk. Someone probably replaced stock one with an exedy or similar, which usually only last 20k miles. Probably also have a bad release bearing, aftermarket ones usually go bad in about the same miles.
You probably also have rusted splines, so clutch disk can't slide, so it drags. If you have a shop replace clutch, they won't grease it, even if you ask, or else they will use the wrong grease. This will cause crunchy shifts. So find an S2k specialist for this job, else diy.
You want to only use Honda disk, Honda release bearing, Honda pilot bearing. The pp, either Honda or Act H021 for a slight upgrade. If you have an ap2, you will want a lighter flywheel. Either an ap1, or for even lighter, an 11 lb chromoly aftermarket.
You probably also have rusted splines, so clutch disk can't slide, so it drags. If you have a shop replace clutch, they won't grease it, even if you ask, or else they will use the wrong grease. This will cause crunchy shifts. So find an S2k specialist for this job, else diy.
You want to only use Honda disk, Honda release bearing, Honda pilot bearing. The pp, either Honda or Act H021 for a slight upgrade. If you have an ap2, you will want a lighter flywheel. Either an ap1, or for even lighter, an 11 lb chromoly aftermarket.
11-11-2016, 06:34 PM
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Has anyone mentioned the possibility of a worn throw out bearing? That chattering can come from a worn throw out bearing when the clutch pedal is pressed. Hope this helps.Clutch Diagnostic Test
If you don't hear any noise during these four steps, then your problem is probably not the clutch. If you hear the noise at idle and it goes away when the clutch is pressed, it may be an issue in the contact point between the fork and pivot ball.
If you don't hear any noise during these four steps, then your problem is probably not the clutch. If you hear the noise at idle and it goes away when the clutch is pressed, it may be an issue in the contact point between the fork and pivot ball.
- With your car idling, listen for a growling noise without pushing the clutch in. If you hear something, it's most likely a problem with the transmission. If you don't hear a noise, proceed to step three.
- With the car still in neutral, begin to push the clutch and listen for noise. If you hear a chirping noise as you press, it's most likely the clutch release, or throw-out bearing. If you don't hear a noise, proceed to step four.
- Push the clutch all the way to the floor. If you hear a squealing noise, it's probably the pilot bearing or bushing.
Last edited by L8BRAKN; 11-11-2016 at 06:35 PM. Reason: spelling
04-25-2019, 03:18 PM
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I ran the tests and no noises as described above. The car is easier to shift 4K revs or below. Build them up and gears begin to grind. The "chattering" I described in a previous post is when I'm going from a standing start and let out the clutch in 1st gear (or reverse). It chatters right as the clutch is beginning to engage before completely fully engaged. It happens during the transition.
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04-26-2019, 05:56 AM
#8
When it gets really hard to shift and you get added noises, it could be that the clutch disk or pressure plate are damaged. Or a flywheel bolt loosened itself. One of the cages on the disk that holds the springs, or a finger on the pressure plate broke off. Or the transmission has seen better days, or a combination of issues.
04-26-2019, 07:38 AM
#9
When you replaced the parts, you introduced air into the system, which can be difficult to bleed out.
Do a gravity bleed, and make sure the mc never runs dry during procedure. Unbolt slave, and during bleed, slowly rotate it around so any trapped air rises to flow out bleeder.
Also do a clutch rod adjustment.
If still having issue, you have some combination of rusted splines, a worn release bearing, or a crappy aftermarket clutch with a broken spring that is now dragging. The cure for all of these is the same. Remove trans, and replace clutch and related pieces. Release bearing abd pilot bearing. Inspect and resurface flywheel and pressure plate. Inspect release bearing guide.
It will all be worthless efforts if you:
Don't use oem clutch disk and release bearing FROM HONDA. Note, Exedy oem clutch is not oem, and its total crap.
Don't properly grease whats supposed to be greased, and use the correct grease. If you just have a shop do it, they are just going to do what tbey always do for clutch installs, and assume it will be good enough here. It won't be. They have to use Honda Urea grease, and have to diligently follow the procedures in service manual for what to grease and how much.
Print those out for them, and if you get the feeling they are thinking we got this, and aren't taking you seriously, find another shop.
Do a gravity bleed, and make sure the mc never runs dry during procedure. Unbolt slave, and during bleed, slowly rotate it around so any trapped air rises to flow out bleeder.
Also do a clutch rod adjustment.
If still having issue, you have some combination of rusted splines, a worn release bearing, or a crappy aftermarket clutch with a broken spring that is now dragging. The cure for all of these is the same. Remove trans, and replace clutch and related pieces. Release bearing abd pilot bearing. Inspect and resurface flywheel and pressure plate. Inspect release bearing guide.
It will all be worthless efforts if you:
Don't use oem clutch disk and release bearing FROM HONDA. Note, Exedy oem clutch is not oem, and its total crap.
Don't properly grease whats supposed to be greased, and use the correct grease. If you just have a shop do it, they are just going to do what tbey always do for clutch installs, and assume it will be good enough here. It won't be. They have to use Honda Urea grease, and have to diligently follow the procedures in service manual for what to grease and how much.
Print those out for them, and if you get the feeling they are thinking we got this, and aren't taking you seriously, find another shop.
04-26-2019, 09:39 AM
#10
When you replaced the parts, you introduced air into the system, which can be difficult to bleed out.
Do a gravity bleed, and make sure the mc never runs dry during procedure. Unbolt slave, and during bleed, slowly rotate it around so any trapped air rises to flow out bleeder.
Also do a clutch rod adjustment.
If still having issue, you have some combination of rusted splines, a worn release bearing, or a crappy aftermarket clutch with a broken spring that is now dragging. The cure for all of these is the same. Remove trans, and replace clutch and related pieces. Release bearing abd pilot bearing. Inspect and resurface flywheel and pressure plate. Inspect release bearing guide.
It will all be worthless efforts if you:
Don't use oem clutch disk and release bearing FROM HONDA. Note, Exedy oem clutch is not oem, and its total crap.
Don't properly grease whats supposed to be greased, and use the correct grease. If you just have a shop do it, they are just going to do what tbey always do for clutch installs, and assume it will be good enough here. It won't be. They have to use Honda Urea grease, and have to diligently follow the procedures in service manual for what to grease and how much.
Print those out for them, and if you get the feeling they are thinking we got this, and aren't taking you seriously, find another shop.
Do a gravity bleed, and make sure the mc never runs dry during procedure. Unbolt slave, and during bleed, slowly rotate it around so any trapped air rises to flow out bleeder.
Also do a clutch rod adjustment.
If still having issue, you have some combination of rusted splines, a worn release bearing, or a crappy aftermarket clutch with a broken spring that is now dragging. The cure for all of these is the same. Remove trans, and replace clutch and related pieces. Release bearing abd pilot bearing. Inspect and resurface flywheel and pressure plate. Inspect release bearing guide.
It will all be worthless efforts if you:
Don't use oem clutch disk and release bearing FROM HONDA. Note, Exedy oem clutch is not oem, and its total crap.
Don't properly grease whats supposed to be greased, and use the correct grease. If you just have a shop do it, they are just going to do what tbey always do for clutch installs, and assume it will be good enough here. It won't be. They have to use Honda Urea grease, and have to diligently follow the procedures in service manual for what to grease and how much.
Print those out for them, and if you get the feeling they are thinking we got this, and aren't taking you seriously, find another shop.
