Diff oil weight recommendation? 2018
09-21-2018, 06:07 AM
#101
More from Blackstone earlier this morning (via email):
Maybe I'm (we're) overthinking this. There is Honda-branded hypoid gear oil available everywhere including Walmart and Ebay. GL-5 90, just like the spec. Roughly $9/qt. Same stuff I use in my Honda outboards.
-- Chuck
Something we could do for you is to compare the basic properties of the old and new virgin oils. Then you'd have something to start with. By looking at the element concentrations you may be able to tell if they've made changes to the additive packages, but remember there are more than the twenty elements we test for in the oil. We test for those we've found over the years to be most important for wear performance, but who's to say if LE is using something uncommon that wouldn't show up in our tests?
There are a number of different, very specific tests required in determining if an oil meets the GL-5 spec - if I were to guess I'd say the 1605 probably missed the mark on one of those tests and lost its GL-5 rating. That doesn't mean it won't do a good job in the S2000 diff, but we have no way of knowing beforehand.
There are a number of different, very specific tests required in determining if an oil meets the GL-5 spec - if I were to guess I'd say the 1605 probably missed the mark on one of those tests and lost its GL-5 rating. That doesn't mean it won't do a good job in the S2000 diff, but we have no way of knowing beforehand.
-- Chuck
09-23-2018, 02:06 AM
#103
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Finally i have "brewed" a 50:50 mix of two Motul Oils:
https://www.motul.com/de/en/products...etition-75w140
https://www.motul.com/de/en/products/gear-300-75w90
This gives me a decent 75w-110 diff oil. I choose motul becasue my prefered local parts dealer carrys the whole line and it is good quality.
The Motul Competition 75w-140 is remarkable, its blue colored and it really smells bad, like rotten eggs. Therefore, it must contain a whole extra lot of the EP / Sulphur addtiv a GL5 Oil should have.
It´s like you added a whole tube of this Additiv https://products.liqui-moly.com/addi...r-protect.html to a bottle of oil, the same result.
Maybe the same supplier of chemicals to LM and Motul, i guess.
However, this is promising.
https://www.motul.com/de/en/products...etition-75w140
https://www.motul.com/de/en/products/gear-300-75w90
This gives me a decent 75w-110 diff oil. I choose motul becasue my prefered local parts dealer carrys the whole line and it is good quality.
The Motul Competition 75w-140 is remarkable, its blue colored and it really smells bad, like rotten eggs. Therefore, it must contain a whole extra lot of the EP / Sulphur addtiv a GL5 Oil should have.
It´s like you added a whole tube of this Additiv https://products.liqui-moly.com/addi...r-protect.html to a bottle of oil, the same result.
Maybe the same supplier of chemicals to LM and Motul, i guess.
However, this is promising.
09-23-2018, 06:41 AM
#104
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Mixing oils is in general NOT a good idea, even from the same manufacturer.
Additive packages differ per product.
What you have done is deplete the amount of the proper EP additive in your mixture.
Motul added the amount they think is necessary and you use only half of it.
Not good.
Unless you added this stuff from the tube you mentioned to the mix.
The 75W-90 oil is GL4 so it can't have 'the good' EP additives that are bad for yellow metals.
And all for the sake of... what?
Running an oil that you think is too thick?
Based on what?
You don't sleep well knowing you have a 75W-140 in your diff?
OMG it's gonna blow!
No it wil not.
OMG I can't take off when it's cold and 'drive it hard... y'know'
A very bad idea to begin with.
OMG this thick stuff won't work in winter!
Yes it will.
Additive packages differ per product.
What you have done is deplete the amount of the proper EP additive in your mixture.
Motul added the amount they think is necessary and you use only half of it.
Not good.
Unless you added this stuff from the tube you mentioned to the mix.
The 75W-90 oil is GL4 so it can't have 'the good' EP additives that are bad for yellow metals.
And all for the sake of... what?
Running an oil that you think is too thick?
Based on what?
You don't sleep well knowing you have a 75W-140 in your diff?
OMG it's gonna blow!
No it wil not.
OMG I can't take off when it's cold and 'drive it hard... y'know'
A very bad idea to begin with.
OMG this thick stuff won't work in winter!
Yes it will.
09-23-2018, 06:49 AM
#105
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I've sent an email to Torsen.com trademark holders of the torsen diff about preferred fluid. I got quite a surprising answer.
"The short answer is it doesn't make much difference to the differential."
Full answer:
"With regards to you lubrication question - the short answer is it doesn't make much difference to the differential. Ultimately, it’s a question for the axle manufacturer. What I mean is, the differential operates as just one component in a larger system, a system that shares lubricant. The axle assembly that contains the differential also contains other significant components to which proper lubrication is equally (or more) important. Helical gear differentials like the Torsen that came in your car can actually operate in wide range of fluids and are not particularly fussy about it, so long as the lubricant is of a good quality. They will operate just fine in all of the oil weights that you've mentioned. On the other hand, the ring gear and the pinion gear that drives it are extremely fussy about correct lubrication. So are the bearings and oil seals, though most people don't consider them.
A lot of people ask the same basic question - what lube does the Torsen need? Basically, I have to point out that this is not the correct question to ask, for the reasons mentioned before. What you need to ask is "what oil does my ring & pinion gearing need?" That is what you should be concerned with, as the differential itself doesn't really care. You'll need to ask the gear manufacturer that. If you are using the production ring & pinion gears, that information should be included in your owner's manual, or available from the dealer."
"The short answer is it doesn't make much difference to the differential."
Full answer:
"With regards to you lubrication question - the short answer is it doesn't make much difference to the differential. Ultimately, it’s a question for the axle manufacturer. What I mean is, the differential operates as just one component in a larger system, a system that shares lubricant. The axle assembly that contains the differential also contains other significant components to which proper lubrication is equally (or more) important. Helical gear differentials like the Torsen that came in your car can actually operate in wide range of fluids and are not particularly fussy about it, so long as the lubricant is of a good quality. They will operate just fine in all of the oil weights that you've mentioned. On the other hand, the ring gear and the pinion gear that drives it are extremely fussy about correct lubrication. So are the bearings and oil seals, though most people don't consider them.
A lot of people ask the same basic question - what lube does the Torsen need? Basically, I have to point out that this is not the correct question to ask, for the reasons mentioned before. What you need to ask is "what oil does my ring & pinion gearing need?" That is what you should be concerned with, as the differential itself doesn't really care. You'll need to ask the gear manufacturer that. If you are using the production ring & pinion gears, that information should be included in your owner's manual, or available from the dealer."
Did you happen to ask them if the oil itself plays a role in locking bias?
If you did you didn't mention it.
If you did they would have answered: "Yeah it does a little BUT you won't notice it"
As you don't notice just 1 (ONE!) tire being a little of in pressure in the S2000 (you do, actually) or a tire that has a profile the S2000 just does not like (this happens too).
And did you happen to ask Torsen about those side washer 'ears' that people have found on their magnetic drain?
And how this happens?
And if it's 'no problem'?
Missed opportunity I have to say.
09-23-2018, 09:53 AM
#107
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@ Spitfire S:
All i have done is mixing two almost equal GL5 rated oils from the same manufacturer to get the, in my point of view wich maybe differs from yours, right viscosity in the 110 range.
I am not a big fan of to thin or to thick oils. Some people may run -140 or even -190 or -250 grade oil int the differrential if they feel happy with it, i will not do this in - MY - car.
The 75w-90 i used - IS - in fact GL 5 rated. See the link i have posted. So i dont have depleted the amount of GL5 / EP addtives in my mixture.
In my opinion, by using the 75w-140 i have enriched the amount of EP additives in my mixture compared to ordinary GL5 oils.
All i have done is mixing two almost equal GL5 rated oils from the same manufacturer to get the, in my point of view wich maybe differs from yours, right viscosity in the 110 range.
I am not a big fan of to thin or to thick oils. Some people may run -140 or even -190 or -250 grade oil int the differrential if they feel happy with it, i will not do this in - MY - car.
The 75w-90 i used - IS - in fact GL 5 rated. See the link i have posted. So i dont have depleted the amount of GL5 / EP addtives in my mixture.
In my opinion, by using the 75w-140 i have enriched the amount of EP additives in my mixture compared to ordinary GL5 oils.
09-23-2018, 01:36 PM
#108
It sounds familiar.
Did you happen to ask them if the oil itself plays a role in locking bias?
If you did you didn't mention it.
If you did they would have answered: "Yeah it does a little BUT you won't notice it"
As you don't notice just 1 (ONE!) tire being a little of in pressure in the S2000 (you do, actually) or a tire that has a profile the S2000 just does not like (this happens too).
And did you happen to ask Torsen about those side washer 'ears' that people have found on their magnetic drain?
And how this happens?
And if it's 'no problem'?
Missed opportunity I have to say.
Did you happen to ask them if the oil itself plays a role in locking bias?
If you did you didn't mention it.
If you did they would have answered: "Yeah it does a little BUT you won't notice it"
As you don't notice just 1 (ONE!) tire being a little of in pressure in the S2000 (you do, actually) or a tire that has a profile the S2000 just does not like (this happens too).
And did you happen to ask Torsen about those side washer 'ears' that people have found on their magnetic drain?
And how this happens?
And if it's 'no problem'?
Missed opportunity I have to say.
, why do you post such a comment that adds nothing to the thread? I dont see how you help anyone by making your point. Just send your questions to Torsen.com instead of complaining that I didnt. We all have different questions.
09-23-2018, 10:59 PM
#109
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What did that add?
Did they actually recommend anything that wasn't discussed - to death - already?
Did it provide an insight that was not mentioned before?
I don't think so.
Did I 'complain' about it?
09-23-2018, 11:07 PM
#110
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@ Spitfire S:
All i have done is mixing two almost equal GL5 rated oils from the same manufacturer to get the, in my point of view wich maybe differs from yours, right viscosity in the 110 range.
I am not a big fan of to thin or to thick oils. Some people may run -140 or even -190 or -250 grade oil int the differrential if they feel happy with it, i will not do this in - MY - car.
The 75w-90 i used - IS - in fact GL 5 rated. See the link i have posted. So i dont have depleted the amount of GL5 / EP addtives in my mixture.
In my opinion, by using the 75w-140 i have enriched the amount of EP additives in my mixture compared to ordinary GL5 oils.
All i have done is mixing two almost equal GL5 rated oils from the same manufacturer to get the, in my point of view wich maybe differs from yours, right viscosity in the 110 range.
I am not a big fan of to thin or to thick oils. Some people may run -140 or even -190 or -250 grade oil int the differrential if they feel happy with it, i will not do this in - MY - car.
The 75w-90 i used - IS - in fact GL 5 rated. See the link i have posted. So i dont have depleted the amount of GL5 / EP addtives in my mixture.
In my opinion, by using the 75w-140 i have enriched the amount of EP additives in my mixture compared to ordinary GL5 oils.
The 75W-90 you used is ALSO GL-4 rated, follow the link you posted.
GL-4 rules out sulphur based EP additives as they attack yellow metals.
And you mentioned the 75W-140 smells like rotten egs, typical for those sulphur based additives.
So I think it's save to say the two oils DO NOT have the same additive package.
And you use half of each in your mixture.
Your diff is better off with the undiluted 75W-140.