Puffing @ Idle When Warm, NO CEL
06-07-2019, 06:03 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Puffing @ Idle When Warm, NO CEL
Hey everyone, I've been diving through the forums trying to find if anyone has had this issue. I have found a few that are close, but none 100% same symptoms.
I don't have a video of the puffing yet since it is so intermittent. I can try to grab one soon.
Symptoms:
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline.
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing.
Things I've Checked/Replaced:
Replaced all coils with Denso 673-2301
Replaced spark plugs with PFR7G-11S - torqued to 24lbs
New Spark Plug tube seals + Valve Cover Gasket
Valve Adjustment middle to loose end of specs (Intake: .010 in Exhaust: .011 in)
(Checked/re-adjusted 3-4 times) <- I am new to this, so not ruling this out just yet
Cleaned IACV -> Billman Method (remove motor housing) + new gasket
Clean Throttle Body + new gasket
Clean MAP sensor passage + new gasket
Checked STFT (usually around 0% sometimes ±5%) and LTFT (almost always pegged at 0%, sometimes ±2%)
Primary and Secondary O2 values look good to me. Primary rises and falls normally and secondary is pegged at .6V to .7V <- Maybe slightly rich??
Other Info:
'02 AP1
~128k miles
Stock (just FIPK intake)
Billman GenX TCT
AP2 Retainers
All new fluids
Air Pump Bypass
New Idler + Tensioner pulley bearings + new serp belt
Comp Test done by PO: 215/220/215/225
I also have a slight tick that appears about 30 seconds after startup. I posted this before and lots have said no problem.
It goes away sometimes when rad fans turn on and rpm goes up.
Ticking frequency follows RPM
Possible Causes I can think of:
Injectors sticking?
Bad Valve Adjustment?
MAP sensor?
Bent/Burnt Valves?
I found one post where someone had a similar tick after VA, but went away over time. He thinks valves needed time to adjust to their new home??
Things to do:
I need to check compression myself
Do a Leak Down?
Remove MAP sensor when car is puffing?
If anyone can help out or if you have any advice on what to check, please let me know!! Thanks!! -JZ
I don't have a video of the puffing yet since it is so intermittent. I can try to grab one soon.
Symptoms:
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline.
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing.
Things I've Checked/Replaced:
Replaced all coils with Denso 673-2301
Replaced spark plugs with PFR7G-11S - torqued to 24lbs
New Spark Plug tube seals + Valve Cover Gasket
Valve Adjustment middle to loose end of specs (Intake: .010 in Exhaust: .011 in)
(Checked/re-adjusted 3-4 times) <- I am new to this, so not ruling this out just yet
Cleaned IACV -> Billman Method (remove motor housing) + new gasket
Clean Throttle Body + new gasket
Clean MAP sensor passage + new gasket
Checked STFT (usually around 0% sometimes ±5%) and LTFT (almost always pegged at 0%, sometimes ±2%)
Primary and Secondary O2 values look good to me. Primary rises and falls normally and secondary is pegged at .6V to .7V <- Maybe slightly rich??
Other Info:
'02 AP1
~128k miles
Stock (just FIPK intake)
Billman GenX TCT
AP2 Retainers
All new fluids
Air Pump Bypass
New Idler + Tensioner pulley bearings + new serp belt
Comp Test done by PO: 215/220/215/225
I also have a slight tick that appears about 30 seconds after startup. I posted this before and lots have said no problem.
It goes away sometimes when rad fans turn on and rpm goes up.
Ticking frequency follows RPM
Possible Causes I can think of:
Injectors sticking?
Bad Valve Adjustment?
MAP sensor?
Bent/Burnt Valves?
I found one post where someone had a similar tick after VA, but went away over time. He thinks valves needed time to adjust to their new home??
Things to do:
I need to check compression myself
Do a Leak Down?
Remove MAP sensor when car is puffing?
If anyone can help out or if you have any advice on what to check, please let me know!! Thanks!! -JZ
06-09-2019, 05:37 PM
#2
First off, stop throwing parts on the car hoping that will fix it. All you'll do is spend a shit load of money with no guarantee that it will fix anything. You say "puffing" is it dark like its pig rich for a second(would also smell like gas)? or is light colored like how the exhaust looks when first started on a cool day?
Rod
Rod
06-10-2019, 05:48 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Hi Rod,
Yes I agree about throwing money/parts at it. Not a good tactic.. Most of what I have done is because of other maintenance (seals because I repainted the cover and some looked meh, plugs since I have no history of them from PO, coils since two of them looked new and two very old, so now they all match (OCD) and thought i'd get lucky there). Those are all relatively cheap things anyways
Just trying to get some feedback before I look at buying injectors ($$$) or pulling anything else apart lol
As far as puffing goes, it just sounds like a slight miss (Not enough to CEL apparently...), there is no smoke that comes out during the puff/pop. If I rev it a bit, I do notice some black soot that drips on the concrete, but not enough to get me concerned. And it does smell a little like fuel right after startup, but not when idling when warm/ after a drive when the puffing/popping is sometimes occurring.
Any ideas I can look into? My next steps are to unplug the MAP sensor when its popping and see if it stops (found this in another thread). My biggest suspect is one of the injectors might be clogged up or something... I will try to unplug them one by one when idling to see if my ticking stops, maybe the ticking and puffing are related.
Thanks for your help Rod! - JZ
Yes I agree about throwing money/parts at it. Not a good tactic.. Most of what I have done is because of other maintenance (seals because I repainted the cover and some looked meh, plugs since I have no history of them from PO, coils since two of them looked new and two very old, so now they all match (OCD) and thought i'd get lucky there). Those are all relatively cheap things anyways
Just trying to get some feedback before I look at buying injectors ($$$) or pulling anything else apart lolAs far as puffing goes, it just sounds like a slight miss (Not enough to CEL apparently...), there is no smoke that comes out during the puff/pop. If I rev it a bit, I do notice some black soot that drips on the concrete, but not enough to get me concerned. And it does smell a little like fuel right after startup, but not when idling when warm/ after a drive when the puffing/popping is sometimes occurring.
Any ideas I can look into? My next steps are to unplug the MAP sensor when its popping and see if it stops (found this in another thread). My biggest suspect is one of the injectors might be clogged up or something... I will try to unplug them one by one when idling to see if my ticking stops, maybe the ticking and puffing are related.
Thanks for your help Rod! - JZ
07-09-2019, 03:02 AM
#5
Registered User
Hi Rod,
Yes I agree about throwing money/parts at it. Not a good tactic.. Most of what I have done is because of other maintenance (seals because I repainted the cover and some looked meh, plugs since I have no history of them from PO, coils since two of them looked new and two very old, so now they all match (OCD) and thought i'd get lucky there). Those are all relatively cheap things anyways Just trying to get some feedback before I look at buying injectors ($$$) or pulling anything else apart lol
As far as puffing goes, it just sounds like a slight miss (Not enough to CEL apparently...), there is no smoke that comes out during the puff/pop. If I rev it a bit, I do notice some black soot that drips on the concrete, but not enough to get me concerned. And it does smell a little like fuel right after startup, but not when idling when warm/ after a drive when the puffing/popping is sometimes occurring.
Any ideas I can look into? My next steps are to unplug the MAP sensor when its popping and see if it stops (found this in another thread). My biggest suspect is one of the injectors might be clogged up or something... I will try to unplug them one by one when idling to see if my ticking stops, maybe the ticking and puffing are related.
Thanks for your help Rod! - JZ
Yes I agree about throwing money/parts at it. Not a good tactic.. Most of what I have done is because of other maintenance (seals because I repainted the cover and some looked meh, plugs since I have no history of them from PO, coils since two of them looked new and two very old, so now they all match (OCD) and thought i'd get lucky there). Those are all relatively cheap things anyways
Just trying to get some feedback before I look at buying injectors ($$$) or pulling anything else apart lolAs far as puffing goes, it just sounds like a slight miss (Not enough to CEL apparently...), there is no smoke that comes out during the puff/pop. If I rev it a bit, I do notice some black soot that drips on the concrete, but not enough to get me concerned. And it does smell a little like fuel right after startup, but not when idling when warm/ after a drive when the puffing/popping is sometimes occurring.
Any ideas I can look into? My next steps are to unplug the MAP sensor when its popping and see if it stops (found this in another thread). My biggest suspect is one of the injectors might be clogged up or something... I will try to unplug them one by one when idling to see if my ticking stops, maybe the ticking and puffing are related.
Thanks for your help Rod! - JZ
07-10-2019, 10:40 AM
#7
Have you brought the car to a tuner? its possible the car might be running rich on startup. How loud are the pops? I'm no mechanic but just trying to offer some alternative thinking.
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07-31-2019, 04:56 AM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
UPDATE:
I installed the used (~22k miles) injectors I got from another S2Ki member. All new seals used. So far, the issue has been resolved!
The old injectors and the holes they go in where pretty gunked up with carbon deposits after ~128k miles. I carefully cleaned the holes in the manifold to prevent any crud from dropping in on top the valves. Clean as can be now. Another thing to note, the back of my valves looked immaculate, almost no carbon build up on the backs. I was very surprised for ~128k miles on the clock.. Does this indicate other issues or did the POs only use awesome fuel/clean air filter?
Symptoms: (SOLVED)
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm. <-- Solved for now! Will update after more drive cycles.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline. <-- Car feels more responsive and eager to rev now. Throttle feels touchier
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt. <-- Solved, no more shaking.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down <-- Solved, does not dip to "1 bar of RPM" and shake after a rev in neutral or pushing in clutch after slowing down.
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing. <-- Still no codes. Fuel trims are perfect.
However, my ticking noise after 30 seconds of idle is still present and still sounds like its frequency matches injectors... Will continue to search for the culprit!
I installed the used (~22k miles) injectors I got from another S2Ki member. All new seals used. So far, the issue has been resolved!
The old injectors and the holes they go in where pretty gunked up with carbon deposits after ~128k miles. I carefully cleaned the holes in the manifold to prevent any crud from dropping in on top the valves. Clean as can be now. Another thing to note, the back of my valves looked immaculate, almost no carbon build up on the backs. I was very surprised for ~128k miles on the clock.. Does this indicate other issues or did the POs only use awesome fuel/clean air filter?
Symptoms: (SOLVED)
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm. <-- Solved for now! Will update after more drive cycles.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline. <-- Car feels more responsive and eager to rev now. Throttle feels touchier
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt. <-- Solved, no more shaking.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down <-- Solved, does not dip to "1 bar of RPM" and shake after a rev in neutral or pushing in clutch after slowing down.
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing. <-- Still no codes. Fuel trims are perfect.
However, my ticking noise after 30 seconds of idle is still present and still sounds like its frequency matches injectors... Will continue to search for the culprit!
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rx7ands2k (10-10-2023)
07-31-2019, 07:02 AM
#9
Registered User
UPDATE:
I installed the used (~22k miles) injectors I got from another S2Ki member. All new seals used. So far, the issue has been resolved!
The old injectors and the holes they go in where pretty gunked up with carbon deposits after ~128k miles. I carefully cleaned the holes in the manifold to prevent any crud from dropping in on top the valves. Clean as can be now. Another thing to note, the back of my valves looked immaculate, almost no carbon build up on the backs. I was very surprised for ~128k miles on the clock.. Does this indicate other issues or did the POs only use awesome fuel/clean air filter?
Symptoms: (SOLVED)
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm. <-- Solved for now! Will update after more drive cycles.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline. <-- Car feels more responsive and eager to rev now. Throttle feels touchier
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt. <-- Solved, no more shaking.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down <-- Solved, does not dip to "1 bar of RPM" and shake after a rev in neutral or pushing in clutch after slowing down.
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing. <-- Still no codes. Fuel trims are perfect.
However, my ticking noise after 30 seconds of idle is still present and still sounds like its frequency matches injectors... Will continue to search for the culprit!
I installed the used (~22k miles) injectors I got from another S2Ki member. All new seals used. So far, the issue has been resolved!
The old injectors and the holes they go in where pretty gunked up with carbon deposits after ~128k miles. I carefully cleaned the holes in the manifold to prevent any crud from dropping in on top the valves. Clean as can be now. Another thing to note, the back of my valves looked immaculate, almost no carbon build up on the backs. I was very surprised for ~128k miles on the clock.. Does this indicate other issues or did the POs only use awesome fuel/clean air filter?
Symptoms: (SOLVED)
Some days I get a slight puff from exhaust once every 2-3 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, very intermittent, but only at idle when car is warm. <-- Solved for now! Will update after more drive cycles.
Car drives awesome and pulls hard and smooth to redline. <-- Car feels more responsive and eager to rev now. Throttle feels touchier
Car shakes only on larger pops, not terrible, but can be felt. <-- Solved, no more shaking.
Sometimes (rarely after cleaning IACV) car will dip to very low idle after pushing in clutch when slowing down <-- Solved, does not dip to "1 bar of RPM" and shake after a rev in neutral or pushing in clutch after slowing down.
NO CEL, no pending or stored codes. I have read them when car was puffing and still nothing. <-- Still no codes. Fuel trims are perfect.
However, my ticking noise after 30 seconds of idle is still present and still sounds like its frequency matches injectors... Will continue to search for the culprit!
07-31-2019, 07:26 AM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks for the update. Did you at any point try running injector cleaner in the gas tank and if so did it seem to have any impact? I am running a bottle of Redline SI-1 in the tank now and still have a very similar problem to what you describe. Perhaps it just needs more time...would prefer to avoid having to pull the injectors if at all possible. If the Redline doesn't work, removing and cleaning or replacing injectors is going to be my next step.