Stage 2 brake install today
07-02-2010, 09:21 PM
#1
Stage 2 brake install today
So I started the install around 1pm today of the StopTech stage 2 brake setup. Drilled rotors, axxis pads, stainless steal brake hose, and for extra credit I painted my calipers.
The install was somewhat smooth, but very time consuming. Painting the calipers was the longest part since I was being a perfectionist.
Did everything step by step using Xviper's guide on s2kca, and didnt run into any problems until it came to the gravity bleed. I emptied all of the brake fluid since I had 3 bottles of Motul RBF600 DOT4 that came with the stage 2 kit, installed the SS lines, and opened the bleeder valve to let it flow after everything was put back together and the reservoir topped off. No fluid came out after letting it sit for 15 minutes. Being that this was my first attempt at bleeding brakes, I wasnt sure what my problem was.
I started on the passenger front, working counter clockwise, and had to open the bleeder valve and pump the brake pedal to get anything to come out. After a few pumps I would run around to check the valve and sure enough it was steadily flowing. I tightened the valve and capped it off and proceeded to the next caliper.
After checking for any leaks, the pedal felt pretty firm and I assumed I was good to go. I started the car up to take it for a test around my apartment complex, and sure enough as soon is it started the pedal went all the way soft on me. I drove around and had to pump the brake 3 times for it to feel somewhat right. Definitely not safe to drive, so tomorrow I plan on bleeding the lines again.
How long do I need to let fluid come out before I cap it, and I shouldnt have to have the car on to do this correct? I have 2 more bottles of Motul and the reservoir only held 1 bottle after the bleed.
Any other tips for tomorrow?
The install was somewhat smooth, but very time consuming. Painting the calipers was the longest part since I was being a perfectionist.
Did everything step by step using Xviper's guide on s2kca, and didnt run into any problems until it came to the gravity bleed. I emptied all of the brake fluid since I had 3 bottles of Motul RBF600 DOT4 that came with the stage 2 kit, installed the SS lines, and opened the bleeder valve to let it flow after everything was put back together and the reservoir topped off. No fluid came out after letting it sit for 15 minutes. Being that this was my first attempt at bleeding brakes, I wasnt sure what my problem was.
I started on the passenger front, working counter clockwise, and had to open the bleeder valve and pump the brake pedal to get anything to come out. After a few pumps I would run around to check the valve and sure enough it was steadily flowing. I tightened the valve and capped it off and proceeded to the next caliper.
After checking for any leaks, the pedal felt pretty firm and I assumed I was good to go. I started the car up to take it for a test around my apartment complex, and sure enough as soon is it started the pedal went all the way soft on me. I drove around and had to pump the brake 3 times for it to feel somewhat right. Definitely not safe to drive, so tomorrow I plan on bleeding the lines again.
How long do I need to let fluid come out before I cap it, and I shouldnt have to have the car on to do this correct? I have 2 more bottles of Motul and the reservoir only held 1 bottle after the bleed.
Any other tips for tomorrow?
07-02-2010, 09:34 PM
#2
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hard to measure a "time" when purging all air using the gravity bleed method. at work, i crack all bleeders and check the flow at each corner. fronts flow faster than rears. what i would do is, if possible, do all 4 corners at a time. if not, you can try two at a time. you can more/less tell which line has air in it. the line without air flows smoothly, while the one with air does not.
another way you can try is submerse a hose from the bleeder nipple to a bottle submerged in brake fluid. pump brake 4 to 6 times or so. repeat for all calipers.
*note* not sure how the motul brake fluid bottle is shaped, but the oem honda brake fluid bottles can be used like a gravity feeder. open bottle and turn upside down on brake master resevoir. you can still pump the pedal while doing this due to a one way check valve in master cyl. when pumping pedal DO NOT PUMP PEDAL TO FLOOR!! go about half way. this is being on the safe side as master cyl pushrod debris build up on seal.
if you are absolutely sure you have ALL the air purged from brake system, you most likely have a bad brake master cyl.
another way you can try is submerse a hose from the bleeder nipple to a bottle submerged in brake fluid. pump brake 4 to 6 times or so. repeat for all calipers.
*note* not sure how the motul brake fluid bottle is shaped, but the oem honda brake fluid bottles can be used like a gravity feeder. open bottle and turn upside down on brake master resevoir. you can still pump the pedal while doing this due to a one way check valve in master cyl. when pumping pedal DO NOT PUMP PEDAL TO FLOOR!! go about half way. this is being on the safe side as master cyl pushrod debris build up on seal.
if you are absolutely sure you have ALL the air purged from brake system, you most likely have a bad brake master cyl.
07-03-2010, 05:00 AM
#3
It's a little late for this now, but...
I never completely empty the system of brake fluid. When I bleed brakes for track events, I never let the reservoirs go completely empty. To do so is just asking for what you've run into (trapped air in the lines). I know there is a compulsion to get rid of all that old 'bad' fluid, but with a good thorough flushing you're going to be fine, and if you flush pretty regularly with good fluid, even less to worry about.
FWIW, I do the cheapo parts-store "one-man-bleeder-kit" method. Small bottle with magnet and tube going to the bottom of it, one caliper at a time, loosen bleed valve and pump pump pump at the pedal. Refill reservoirs when they get close to being empty. Quick, cheap, easy, and (in my case, anyway) effective.
I never completely empty the system of brake fluid. When I bleed brakes for track events, I never let the reservoirs go completely empty. To do so is just asking for what you've run into (trapped air in the lines). I know there is a compulsion to get rid of all that old 'bad' fluid, but with a good thorough flushing you're going to be fine, and if you flush pretty regularly with good fluid, even less to worry about.
FWIW, I do the cheapo parts-store "one-man-bleeder-kit" method. Small bottle with magnet and tube going to the bottom of it, one caliper at a time, loosen bleed valve and pump pump pump at the pedal. Refill reservoirs when they get close to being empty. Quick, cheap, easy, and (in my case, anyway) effective.
07-03-2010, 07:33 AM
#4
Originally Posted by ZDan,Jul 3 2010, 09:00 AM
It's a little late for this now, but...
I never completely empty the system of brake fluid. When I bleed brakes for track events, I never let the reservoirs go completely empty. To do so is just asking for what you've run into (trapped air in the lines). I know there is a compulsion to get rid of all that old 'bad' fluid, but with a good thorough flushing you're going to be fine, and if you flush pretty regularly with good fluid, even less to worry about.
FWIW, I do the cheapo parts-store "one-man-bleeder-kit" method. Small bottle with magnet and tube going to the bottom of it, one caliper at a time, loosen bleed valve and pump pump pump at the pedal. Refill reservoirs when they get close to being empty. Quick, cheap, easy, and (in my case, anyway) effective.
I never completely empty the system of brake fluid. When I bleed brakes for track events, I never let the reservoirs go completely empty. To do so is just asking for what you've run into (trapped air in the lines). I know there is a compulsion to get rid of all that old 'bad' fluid, but with a good thorough flushing you're going to be fine, and if you flush pretty regularly with good fluid, even less to worry about.
FWIW, I do the cheapo parts-store "one-man-bleeder-kit" method. Small bottle with magnet and tube going to the bottom of it, one caliper at a time, loosen bleed valve and pump pump pump at the pedal. Refill reservoirs when they get close to being empty. Quick, cheap, easy, and (in my case, anyway) effective.
one man bleeder ftw.
07-03-2010, 05:05 PM
#6
You need to bleed again.
Your mistake was pumping the pedal back and forth with the bleeder still open. When you raised the pedal again, you sucked air into the system.
Crack open one bleeder at a time, make sure the cap is off the master cylinder, and be prepared to wait more like 45 minutes per corner. Don't touch the pedal, just close the bleeder when you're done with a corner.
How do I know this? I made the same mistake!
Your mistake was pumping the pedal back and forth with the bleeder still open. When you raised the pedal again, you sucked air into the system.
Crack open one bleeder at a time, make sure the cap is off the master cylinder, and be prepared to wait more like 45 minutes per corner. Don't touch the pedal, just close the bleeder when you're done with a corner.
How do I know this? I made the same mistake!
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